New Haven Independent

posted by: Westville resident on October 7, 2010  7:58am

I would love to become a member and support a local food co-op.  I do have 2 concerns:

Parking availablity and cost (A nice incentive may be to give members free parking).

Looking at the architectual drawings, it looks like the produce section is very small.  Will there be a wide variety of fresh vegetables?

posted by: Margaret on October 7, 2010  8:08am

Sounds great.  Where do I sign up?

[Editor: Become a member here.]

posted by: that guy on lyon on October 7, 2010  8:08am

Great meeting last night!  Very informative.  Still a lot of questions left unanswered though.

Also, why is the NHI the only paper that covered this?  Oh, it’s because NHI is AWESOME!

posted by: Walter Wagoner on October 7, 2010  8:17am

Where can we sign up?

posted by: to Lyon Guy on October 7, 2010  8:36am

Hey Lyon Guy,
The Register and the Yale Daily News both covered the meeting.  ...

posted by: DEZ on October 7, 2010  8:40am

Ditto.  Link to sign up??

[Editor: It’s here.]

posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010  8:45am

Before you pay this two hundred dollars which to me is a rip off.Check out how the park slope food coop runs in new york.You just pay One hundred Twenty five dollars and you work once every four weeks in exchange for a 20 – 40% savings on groceries. Only members may shop at the PSFC, and membership is open to all.

http://www.foodcoop.com/go.php?id=32

posted by: JB on October 7, 2010  9:06am

Parking- is it free for shoppers?  Plus, how do you sign up?

posted by: Elihu on October 7, 2010  9:07am

Thoughts on Equity:  there will be a group of New Haveners for whom $200 creates a strong barrier to entry. 

More important than Rice Crispies at eye-level is to foster inclusion and mitigate “clubbiness.”
There must be provisions to extend membership to those who cannot at first afford the fee.

posted by: Townie on October 7, 2010  9:13am

No matter what the spin doctors say this co-op/store will be a boutique market for yuppies. There isn’t a nicer way of saying it. It’s all part of the gentrification of downtown. New Haven’s other neighborhoods will continue to be under-served and wanting for a modestly priced, well stocked grocery store.
Also, NHI is not the only news outlet to cover this story NBC 30 did a segment this morning on the meeting.

posted by: V on October 7, 2010  9:23am

There’s a strong thread of entitlement in this article.  What obligation does this co-op have to any particular consumer group?

If people like it, they will shop there.  If they don’t, they won’t.  If the co-op doesn’t attract enough paying customers, they’ll go out of business.  If it has good food at reasonable prices, customers who care about that will shop there.

posted by: S on October 7, 2010  9:24am

Great idea…can’t wait until this opens. 

Hey 3/5ths, some of us have jobs, families, and busy lives.  I don’t feel like having to work another job once every 4 weeks…I’d rather spend the time with my family.  If you would like to, I think S&S is hiring part-time.

posted by: William Kurtz on October 7, 2010  9:33am

Well, $200 might present a barrier to entry, but it’s not as high as the thousands or millions that would be needed to invest in a traditional big-box grocery store.

posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010  9:42am

posted by: S on October 7, 2010 9:24am
Great idea…can’t wait until this opens. 

Hey 3/5ths, some of us have jobs, families, and busy lives.  I don’t feel like having to work another job once every 4 weeks…I’d rather spend the time with my family.  If you would like to, I think S&S is hiring part-time.

You need to read the park slope coop website.I am still a memeber and I just work two hours and 45 minutes once every four weeks.In return I get 40% off of my food items.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Can anyone shop at the Coop?
A: Only members may shop at the Coop, but membership is open to all.

Q: Do you have to live in Park Slope to join?
A: No. Our members come from all over Brooklyn as well as the rest of New York - some even come from out of state!

Q: How much does it cost to join?
A: All members must pay a non-refundable $25.00 joining fee and contribute a $100.00 investment to the Coop. If you terminate your Coop membership your Investment will be refunded to you upon your request. Each adult member of your household will be asked to make these member payments. Extended payment plans are available upon request. For members who receive certain kinds of income-based assistance, the joining fee is $5 and the refundable member investment is $10.

Q: Does the Coop accept cents-off coupons? Food Stamps? WIC?
A: The Coop accepts manufacturers’ cents-off coupons for any product that we sell. We also accept food stamps. However, we are not authorized to accept WIC checks.

Q: Can I really save money shopping at the Coop?
A: Depending on what you buy, it is possible to save quite a lot. Our most recent price comparison survey indicates that Coop members save 20- 40% off of their weekly grocery bill

Q: What does the Coop carry? Does the Coop carry organic food? Does the Coop carry only organic food?
A: The Coop carries a wide variety of products (more than 5000 items) to serve a diverse population with a variety of needs. We sell an excellent selection of organic and conventionally-grown fruits and vegetables, groceries, health food, vitamins, household items, pet products, housewares, office supplies, gift items and more for only 21% above wholesale.

Q: Do all members have to work at the Coop?

A: Every member of the Coop must work at the Coop. The work requirement is 2 hours and 45 minutes once every four weeks. At this rate, every member works 13 times per calendar year.

Q: What if I am disabled?
A: The Coop has many different types of work available to accommodate people of differing preferences and abilities. If a member has specific requirements, we work with that person to find a suitable work assignment. Members can be exempt from working at the Coop if they are dealing with a permanent or temporary condition that makes them unable to work or if they are caring for someone who is ill or disabled.

Q: Why do all members have to work?
A: One of the Coop’s goals is to provide food to the member-owners that is both low priced and high quality. Low prices come primarily from saving money in the area of payroll expense. Payroll is the biggest expense of any store, including this one. The fact that our members do about 75% of the work, thereby keeping our payroll low, is the main reason that the members of this Coop pay low prices. Another goal accomplished when members are doing 75% of the work of the Coop is a feeling of being a member-owner that one cannot get from merely investing one’s money.

Q: Can I pay more and not work?
A: No. We have only one class of membership and everyone pays the same prices and fulfills the same requirements.

Q: What can I do with my children while I am shopping or working?
A: The Coop provides free childcare to children of Coop members while their parent/guardian/babysitter is working and/or shopping at the Coop. Our childcare space is limited to 12 children so we cannot guarantee there will always be space available. If you require guaranteed childcare for your children while you are working and/or shopping your may want to make other arrangements

Q: Is the Coop a place where I can participate and be part of a community?
A: Most members do their workslots as part of teams, called “squads.” Squads meet as a group once every four weeks, giving members a chance to get to know one another. This facilitates members feeling a part of the Coop community. Members can be quite loyal to their squads.

Major decisions for the Coop are made or approved by the monthly General Meeting ? a meeting open to all Coop members. All members who attend the meeting have one vote each in this face-to-face setting. Members are actively encouraged to come to General Meetings and participate. The Coop also holds parties, concerts, dances and other events. The complex role of member-as-worker-as-owner-as-shopper helps most of us develop an identity that includes truly caring about our Coop.

So you don’t think working for two hours and two hours and 45 minutes once every four weeks is worth it.

posted by: Cedarhillresident on October 7, 2010  9:48am

hmmm I thought it was open to all the membership just gives you added benefits?

Free parking downtown…I am guessing not

posted by: robn on October 7, 2010  9:51am

TOWNIE,

Most chain grocery stores have a seductive system of loss-leaders…that is certain items priced very cheaply to attract customers and then many other items (often junk food items) overpriced to counterbalance the loss leaders. An ethical coop would avoid the junk and price everything else according to the actual cost plus overhead and profit. I believe Burlington follows this method. Fact is, when you take away the tricks, decent food costs more than junk food, but then maybe in the long run you’ll be healthier and have fewer expensive trips to the doctor.
Food for thought.
(hey! good name for the coop)

posted by: Townie on October 7, 2010  9:57am

V is right. This co-op, like all other businesses, does not have an obligation to serve the all of the communities of the city. That is why it I call it a boutique market, it is meant for a very specific demographic, the upper-middle class “professionals” that live and work in East Rock, Westville, Wooster and Downtown. It might be a nice addition to their Epcotesque New Haven, but for most us it is inconsequential.

posted by: the guy on lyon on October 7, 2010  9:59am

My bad.  I don’t see a link on the NHR’s site.  Got a link?

Re: working, Elm City Market said they had issues with insurance for volunteers.  Anyone know how other co-ops handle insurance coverage?

posted by: Nitpicker on October 7, 2010  10:21am

Court Street is not a “food desert.”  It’s a few short blocks from Ferraro’s.

posted by: James on October 7, 2010  10:34am

Whenever 3/5th posts something, there should be a “click here to read the rest” option, so I don’t have to spend so much time scrolling past all the copy/paste that they constantly post.

posted by: Mark Oppenheimer on October 7, 2010  11:10am

Hey all—

The members set the vibe. If the only people who pay or volunteer or show up at meetings or whatever are grad students, the market will reflect their concerns. If a more diverse group of people join and sustain it, it will reflect a more diverse group of concerns. That is how co-ops work. Take it from one who was raised in a child-care co-op: the parents who joined were all ‘70s lefties who thought gender-neutral language like “letter carrier” and “fire-fighter” was important…so that was the vibe of the place. If half the members had been evangelical Christians, maybe there would have been grace before meals. Members make the decisions. Members make the decisions. So people who are “worried” about the vibe should just join. Then they get a say.

By the way, I really think people are more courageous than some of the commenters give them credit for. Our farmers’ market in Westville has draws a racially and economically varied mix. And to the extent it doesn’t, then it’s because, well, the stuff is EXPENSIVE (as it has to be, not being subsidized by big agriculture). But I don’t think the folk music is driving away fans of other musical genres. Or if it is…well, that is the way the cookie crumbles. If hippies run a market, then the market has a hippie vibe! I’m not a big folkie myself, but I don’t do the work, so I can’t complain, now can I? When I start my own farmer’s market, there will be more classic rock.

The people who do the work get to decide. If they’re smart, they will respond to the market and the customer base, but that’s up to them.

posted by: Courtney on October 7, 2010  11:15am

I lived in New Haven for 6 years before moving to Burlington, VT 4 years ago.  Elm City Market will be a huge success, especially because they are paying close attention to the successes of Burlington’s City Market/Onion River Co-op - a thriving, urban, college town market and one of the highest grossing natural food co-ops in the country.  Sure, there are a lot of questions and kinks to work out, but in the end New Haven needs this badly.  CT has a long way to go to catch up with other parts of the country already supporting local producers and a local economy.

posted by: Swatty on October 7, 2010  11:24am

“Elm City Market incorporation board member Michael Morand (pictured) presented the co-op as the “next logical step” in New Haven’s “food renaissance,” the development of the city into a foodie destination.”

Now that the ashes of Shaw’s have blown away and their is only hot air talks about when we’ll get another supermarket that caters to ALL, in the meantime we can create a country club market. This is great! I always felt sad for the poor (sic) Yalies that had to shop at Shaw’S

Let everybody else eat cake!

posted by: Gretchen Pritchard on October 7, 2010  11:42am

The old New Haven Food Coop operated on the no-pay system that required regular work by members.  As I recall, that was part of why it didn’t survive.  It just isn’t efficient.

Having a large number of untrained people working once a month for a couple of hours was no way to run a business.  It required so much supervision from the few actual staff members that it would have been easier for them to do it themselves.  People would forget to show up.  They would try to trade work and get confused about who was supposed to work when.  They would do the work poorly, because they didn’t know what they were doing; then somebody else would come along and have to re-do it. 

Poorly done work results in poorly stocked shelves where shoppers can’t find things; it results in waste, damaged produce, expired food (because stock is not properly rotated), customer delays if the check-out volunteers don’t know how to work the computers; and possibly health code violations and injuries to volunteers who don’t do the work often enough to really know how to use the equipment such as ladders and meat slicers.

Except for a small sector of the population that has more time than money, such as unemployed people and some (not all) students, most people would rather pay a reasonable fee ($200 a year is only $17 a month) than give a chunk of time that they can tell is not being efficiently used.  Often their schedules are such that they really do not have that chunk of time—four contiguous hours, for example—except (say) on a Saturday morning.  But the work needs to be done all week.

Think about the actual realities of trying to run a business with untrained volunteers who work only a few hours once a month—think about it from the point of view EITHER of the actual paid staff at the business OR from the point of view of the ordinary folks who are expected to do the volunteering—and I bet you would opt for the $200 fee too.

posted by: Gretchen Pritchard on October 7, 2010  11:45am

Oh and by the way, to those who asked about parking: there’s a several-storey parking garage as part of the building (as you can see if you go by and look at it), and if I recall correctly, part of that is reserved for grocery store customers.

posted by: Melissa on October 7, 2010  11:58am

Don’t forget when having those community meetings that the library is a great place to reach the community.  Perhaps even offer workshops on buying healthy food when on a really tight budget.  Offer cooking/samples demos at the community meetings, too.  Check out what the Baltimore Health Dept., grocery stores and the library accomplished for low income neighborhoods in Baltimore.

posted by: Pedro Soto on October 7, 2010  12:04pm

This is a titanic win for this city, and a titanic win for downtown. For people screaming elitism, come on. If a Trader Joes or Whole Foods or other corporately owned high-end food store were moving in, then maybe I could see a point, but this is not the case.

A developer of $200 Million building is placing another multimillion dollar bet on a locally run full-service grocery store. The other national and corporate food retailers have decided yet again to pass on a downtown market, and Mr. Becker is putting his money where his mouth is and betting that those companies are wrong.

Threefifths, talking about the Park Slope coop is like comparing New Haven to Paris. The Park Slope coop is singularly the biggest and most profitable coop on the planet!  Last year alone they made $40 million in revenues and have 16,000 members! They are actually LIMITING the number of members they have. I think that for New Haven, having this hybrid model where everyone can shop is a better fit for the city. If we manage even a 10th of that, Elm City Coop will be a runaway success.

And for this obsession with free parking, people really need to start to really think past what 1 hour of parking costs. think about the alternative- if you drive the 18 mile round trip to Milford,  Spend an hour of your time in traffic and dealing with Route 1 for Whole Foods, you are going to spend as much if not more in fuel costs alone, not to mention time, than if you deal with 2 bucks or whatever it is going to be for parking.  People freak out about a few dollars, but then gladly drive their car to the suburbs spending much more on the gas alone.

I sincerely hope that, if anything, this model can be spread out to other sections of the city so that there are even more local food options. Perhaps Elm City market could open up satellites in a few years in the DIxwell or Newhall areas.

And I agree that everyone keeps on forgetting about Ferraros! They are a fine New Haven institution and are very popular. The big issue I have with them is that they are closed on Sundays and close during the week at 6pm, which mean that most people who work during the day can’t really make it there to shop in the evenings, and on Saturday it’s an absolute zoo.

I think that it’s really hard to underestimate just how big of a deal this is. I actually think that this is an accomplishment on par with 360 State itself.

posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010  12:10pm

posted by: Gretchen Pritchard on October 7, 2010 11:42am

Think about the actual realities of trying to run a business with untrained volunteers who work only a few hours once a month—think about it from the point of view EITHER of the actual paid staff at the business OR from the point of view of the ordinary folks who are expected to do the volunteering—and I bet you would opt for the $200 fee too.

Who said that the workers are untrained.Even this coop would have to train workers.So what is your point. In fact Park sloop coop has been open since 1973 and is one of the longest running coops in the country.I bet you with in six year due to high King john taxes this coop will go under.

posted by: Millie on October 7, 2010  12:16pm

From a business perspective, I don’t think it’s economically viable for a grocery store to cater to everyone. I can’t think of one. Shoppers who are budget-conscious will inevitably go to more than one place for their food.

For instance, in Fair Haven, there are two main places: Ferraro’s and C-Town Supermarket, which has chains in Manhattan. For customers who don’t see these as grocery stores that can meet their needs, I hope they are honest with themselves the type of food items that the Elm City Market needs to stock. You can’t please everybody - not even Whole Foods, Trader Joe’s, Stop & Shop, Ocean State Job Lot or Costco. All these stores cater to a specific demographic.

That said, the closing of Shaw’s affected the surrounding neighborhood greatly and another supermarket needs to take its place. I will confess that the closing did not affect me as I did not shop there - I am sure I’m not the only one. And yes, I realize I am fortunate to have a 10-year-old car to get me to places.

posted by: embee on October 7, 2010  12:50pm

Here is a link to join the Coop:

http://www.elmcitymarket.coop/membership-form/

Just want to share another group of people that are looking forward to the coop…the people who work downtown!  I would much rather spend my lunch picking up groceries at a CONVIENENT downtown location then spend my nights and weekends at a crowded suburban grocery chain.

posted by: streever on October 7, 2010  2:04pm

“the 200 makes it not inclusive”
What? Everyone is allowed to shop here. Two-hundred dollars is simply a sign of support/investment. It is better than the Park slope model (for New Haven) because you do not have to join to shop there.

For those same low-income people you profess worry over, 125+hours of work would also be non-inclusive. Especially coupled with the requirement that you be a member.

posted by: Jeffery on October 7, 2010  3:00pm

Move to Vermont.
Now THAT’s a good name for the co-op.

posted by: Steve B on October 7, 2010  3:20pm

Three Fifths,

The Park Slope Coop requires that “all adult family members” pay the $125 investment ($25 of which is not refundable). Elm City membership is $200 for the entire family.

For a family consisting of two or more adults, the Elm City co-op is a better deal.

And you don’t have to work there to get the discount.

posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010  3:50pm

posted by: Steve B on October 7, 2010 3:20pm
Three Fifths,

The Park Slope Coop requires that “all adult family members” pay the $125 investment ($25 of which is not refundable). Elm City membership is $200 for the entire family.

For a family consisting of two or more adults, the Elm City co-op is a better deal.

And you don’t have to work there to get the discount.

Not all true.

The Joining Fee
The non-refundable Joining Fee is $25.00. If you receive one of the following forms of income-based assistance, the Joining Fee will be reduced to $5.00:

• Food stamps (EBT)
• Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
• Medicaid
• WIC (we don’t accept WIC in the store, only as proof of reduced-payment eligibility)
• Family Health Plus and Child Health Plus
• Section 8 housing subsidy
• Advantage Program (Fixed Income, Worker or Children’s Advantage) issued by
Administrastion for Children’s Services (ACS) or Human Resources Administration (HRA)
or Department of Homeless Services (DHS

The Member Investment
Each member is required to invest money in the Coop. This investment is non-interest bearing and refunded, upon your request, should terminate your Coop membership. The Investment is $100.00. If you receive one of following forms of income-based assistance the required Member Investment will be reduced to $10.00:

• Food stamps (EBT)
• Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
• Medicaid
• WIC (we don’t accept WIC in the store, only as proof of reduced-payment eligibility)
• Family Health Plus and Child Health Plus
• Section 8 housing subsidy
• Advantage Program (Fixed Income, Worker or Children’s Advantage) issued by
Administrastion for Children’s Services (ACS) or Human Resources Administration (HRA)
or Department of Homeless Services (DHS)

To receive the lowered Investment, you’ll need to present proof of the income-based benefit to the Coop Membership Office. If you have a benefit card, a photocopy of the card is acceptable proof. If you do not have a benefit card, a copy of an award letter will be accepted as proof.

So I get my 100.00 back when I leave.Also for those whocan’t afford the 125.00 they ;ow the fee for them.How come this coop can do like park sloop coop and and do the same fee scale.Or Maybe as Mr.Townie has said will be a boutique market for yuppies.

posted by: Pedro Soto on October 7, 2010 12:04pm

Threefifths, talking about the Park Slope coop is like comparing New Haven to Paris. The Park Slope coop is singularly the biggest and most profitable coop on the planet!  Last year alone they made $40 million in revenues and have 16,000 members! They are actually LIMITING the number of members they have. I think that for New Haven, having this hybrid model where everyone can shop is a better fit for the city. If we manage even a 10th of that, Elm City Coop will be a runaway success.

I am talking about using the blue print that made them the the biggest and most profitable coop on the planet.

posted by: Kevin on October 7, 2010  3:54pm

Elihu, as several people have noted, you can use the store without becoming a member. Moreover, there is a reduced membership fee for people on public assistance.

One thing that encouraged me was how diverse the audience was, both in terms of race/ethnicity and age, as evidenced by the photo at the top of the article.

posted by: Steve B on October 7, 2010  4:04pm

Three-fifths,
...The fee to join the Park Slope coop is a $25 nonrefundable fee, and a $100 investment, per person, $125 total. The Elm City Co-op is asking for $200 per family, fully refundable. That’s a lower price if your family has two or more adults, period.

And Elm City is offering a $20 initial refundable for low income families. You just showed me that Park Slope charges $5 per person, nonrefundable, plus a $10 investment. Once agian, for a family of 2+ adults, Elm City is the better deal.

Not saying this place is perfect, but your argument about Park Slope’s fees/investments being lower is false. Sorry, it just is.

posted by: Westville resident on October 7, 2010  5:52pm

The current population density of downtown new haven will likely not support a supermarket.  If the co-op wants to attract those outside the downtown area, they need to address concerns such as parking (availability & cost) so those who live outside of downtown will be willing to deal with the traffic to go to their location. 

Yes, I currently drive to orange to go to Trader Joe’s every few weeks (8 miles away) rather than go to the supermarket 1 mile away because of cost and value.  I also frequent Edge of the Woods for value and convenient parking.  I will continue to drive the 8 miles to Joe’s(vs 3.5 miles to the new co-op)if the parking and traffic is such a headache, it will not be worth it.  This is also a reality, I would imagine, for a lot of folks.

posted by: out of town on October 7, 2010  6:21pm

To Mark Oppenheimer,

I agree with your comments about people who participate setting up the vibe of the place. My concern (to which I present no solutions) is that someone who is low-income and works 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs and children won’t have time or energy to participate in these meetings even though they may want to. I think it’s tricky to say that “people who are “worried” about the vibe should just join.” There are many more barriers to entry than cultural ones. Our economic system makes it really hard for someone who is already in the cycle of working poverty-wage jobs to become engaged in exciting projects like this one (or become engages in their children’s education for that matter). There are certainly cases of people who manage to do everything, but it’s unfair that they have to live such high-stress lives.

posted by: foodgrrl on October 7, 2010  6:49pm

as they noted last night, the $200 membership fee is not annual, but a one time investment for a whole household. if you decide you don’t want to be a member anymore, you get the money back. if you decide you want to stay a member, you will get a yearly check when the co-op is profitable. it’s like buying stock in a company. if you can’t afford the $200, you can pay $20 up front and $20 installments later, or you pay what you can if you really can’t afford it. plus you don’t have to work, which is something that kept me out of the park slope food co-op when i lived in brooklyn.

that sounds like a good deal to me, esp. if Courtney is right about this being a success like city market in Burlington, which would mean $$$ back to the members.

and for non-members, this would still be a place you can stop in and pick up some basic food if you don’t have a car or don’t feel like trekking out to the burbs or fair haven.

i don’t see who loses exactly… at least some people are trying to do something about new haven’s food desert problem instead of finding things to complain about.

posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010  9:06pm

posted by: Steve B on October 7, 2010 4:04pm
Three-fifths,

Three-fifths,
...The fee to join the Park Slope coop is a $25 nonrefundable fee, and a $100 investment, per person, $125 total. The Elm City Co-op is asking for $200 per family, fully refundable. That’s a lower price if your family has two or more adults, period.

Why would the whole famliy have to join if they are all in the same house? And the $200 per family, fully refundable.You need to read the fine print.

Only one membership is required per household. When a member leaves the Co-op, the investment may be refunded to the member upon written request, with the approval of the Board of Directors

The investment may be refunded to the member upon written request, with the approval of the Board of Directors.It is up to the board of directors to approve your refund.

posted by: Sorry on October 7, 2010  9:14pm

I’m sorry, but I don’t think this will succeed as a supermarket serving the whole community. In fact I think it will fail completely. Other food retailers with name recognition and experience have pulled back. The kiss of death, I think. The store is small and there is no free parking nearby. It proposes to sell upmarket organic foods that the majority of New Haven’s citizens cannot afford. This just looks like a scheme to pull in cash from New Haveners to subsidize the rich and famous living in the ivory tower. Yale isn’t even stepping up to the counter with the green. It’s students and faculty will benefit the most, so let them put up the cash. I’d rather put up $200 for Powerball tickets, as these would be a much better investment than this (bad joke). If a Co-op is to be set uo the old Shaws supermarket on Whaley is the place to be.

posted by: Whine and cheese on October 7, 2010  9:15pm

Townie, Swatty, Threefifths:

Dudes, all your negativity is, like, putting a serious bummer on a really cool co-op.

I doubt I’ll ever shop at this store, but I’ll be glad to see it open. For those of you who think the place is only for the wine and cheese set—guys, you already brought the whine.

posted by: Gretchen Pritchard on October 7, 2010  10:50pm

posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010 12:10pm

Who said that the workers are untrained.Even this coop would have to train workers.So what is your point.

My point is, How the hell are workers going to actually be trained in anything if they only have to show up for four hours a month.  By the time they learn a few things, they’ve done their time for the month, and a month later they have forgotten what they’ve learned, or they’re doing a different job, or the job itself has changed in some way.

We were members of the New Haven Food Coop.  My husband did most of the work obligation.  It was basically a zoo.  You tried to do something useful but nearly all the time you didn’t know what you were doing and you were often just undoing what the last worker had done, and you had every reason to suspect that whoever came next would end up undoing what you had done.  Meanwhile it was blindingly obvious that the place was wildly disorganized and nobody had the answers to most of your questions.

Work gets done much better and more efficiently by people who come in every day, know the ropes, and have had enough time on the job to remember what to do from one day to the next.  That’s just the way it is.

More power to Park Slope if they have figured this one out.  What I know is that the New Haven Food Coop ultimately didn’t figure it out, and as someone who has run a non-profit and tried to put volunteers to use in ways that weren’t just make-work and/or taking more time in supervision than if we’d simply done it ourselves, it is much harder than you’d think at first.

posted by: Threefifths on October 8, 2010  10:01am

posted by: Gretchen Pritchard on October 7, 2010 10:50pm
posted by: Threefifths on October 7, 2010 12:10pm

Who said that the workers are untrained.Even this coop would have to train workers.So what is your point.

My point is, How the hell are workers going to actually be trained in anything if they only have to show up for four hours a month.  By the time they learn a few things, they’ve done their time for the month, and a month later they have forgotten what they’ve learned, or they’re doing a different job, or the job itself has changed in some way.

Because most of the workers who work at the Park Slope Food Coop havs a back ground in running a market and they work in the front office.Most of the other workers stock the store shelves.How much training do you need to learn how to stock shelves?

Work gets done much better and more efficiently by people who come in every day, know the ropes, and have had enough time on the job to remember what to do from one day to the next.  That’s just the way it is.

They do have people come in every day.In fact the people work in shifts.

More power to Park Slope if they have figured this one out.

They must have.Because they have been around since 1973.

posted by: anon on October 8, 2010  10:53am

Westville:
By not proving free parking, the store can lower costs for all.. This will attract more people. Free parking, like those suburban plazas, has a high cost. Stop asking other people to subsidize your parking, elite liberal lifestyle, and traffic congestion, and instead make an investment of your extra precious minutes in supporting a real place instead of pouring your high income into a bloodsucking national chain and supporting higher gas prices.

posted by: streever on October 10, 2010  9:50pm

“I’d rather put up $200 for Powerball tickets, as these would be a much better investment than this (bad joke).”
Really? Does a corporate sponsor guarantee your $200 worth of powerball and promise a 3-6% return on your investment?

This is a better deal than a savings account or bond.

3/5ths,
At Park Slope, you have to donate both time & money to shop. Here, you don’t have to do ANYTHING. It is free in time & money to shop here.
...

posted by: Threefifths on October 11, 2010  10:06am

posted by: streever on October 10, 2010 9:50pm

3/5ths,
At Park Slope, you have to donate both time & money to shop. Here, you don’t have to do ANYTHING. It is free in time & money to shop here.

True.But this is cheap to run this way.Also if you look at the two hundred dollars to join. I can join BJ’S.Sams club and Costco and have free parking and cheap gas for my car