New Haven Independent

posted by: Robert Narracci on March 9, 2011  1:08pm

I spoke out at the meeting. It seems to me that Chief Grant has the best of intentions but hasn’t thought this through. The Chief seems to have made a decision based upon the statistical infrequency of fires in Whitney neighborhood as opposed to the actual response time from non-Whitney stations when Whitney has no fire truck. Unless the info below is proved to be incorrect (other than the Google mapping, most of it came from the Fire Chief himself), City Hall should reverse this decision. This would not be a favor to this neighborhood, but a continuation of adequate response time.

1) There are ten fire stations in New Haven

2) Whitney Station is one of two stations in New Haven with more than one fire suppression vehicle; one as a neighborhood vehicle and one as an all-city vehicle

3) To save money and shift resources from fire suppression to Emergency Medical Response, the Chief has already decided to decommission the neighborhood fire suppression vehicle (in Whitney Station) and replace it with EMR vehicles.

4) When the remaining all-city vehicle in Whitney station is across town, Ronan, East Rock, Goatville and Edgerton will be covered by other fire stations. The Whitney all-city vehicle spent the greater portion of March 8, 2011 (same day as meeting with Fire Chief) away from the neighborhood on I-91 helping with a gas tanker crash.

5) When quizzed about the National Fire Protection Association standards for total response time, the Chief(s) seemed confused either about the standard or the way I was articulating it. For the record, 90-95% of calls must be answered in the following manner;
a) There is 1 minute for a dispatcher to take your call and notify the station.
b) There is 1 minute for firefighters to suit up and roll out the door.
c) There are 4 minutes of travel time to the fire.
d) Total acceptable is 6 minutes from your call to firefighters arrival; or 5 minutes from the firefighters point of view; or 4 minutes for firefighter transit time. (see NFPA link below.)
e) If you don’t understand how transit time relates to the speed of flame spread please look at the WTNH video of a fire from March 8, 2011 (same day as meeting with Fire Chief) (see WTNH link below)

6) The Chief volunteered that if we called in a fire at our Hooker School meeting, a truck would arrive from Whitney station in 3 minutes, “guaranteed”.

7) I volunteered that, according to Google Maps, the travel time from Station #4 (Grand Ave) is 5 minutes, #10 (Lombard) is 5 minutes, and #6 (Goffe) is 6 minutes.

8) Chief Egan questioned the validity of Google Maps, however, it does match Chief Grants assumption about travel time from Whitney Station to Hooker School. (see Google Map link below) The chiefs indicated that they had no such response time study (maybe not with them, maybe not at all).

9) My Google mapping shows that if a fire at Hooker School were served by a station other than Whitney (a building in the geographic center of this neighborhood, but north of all of the stations) , firefighters would arrive 1 minute later than NFPA standard.

10) There are many, many buildings to the north of Hooker that would get even longer response times. For the record, I live south of Hooker where response times would be better, but have many dear friends to the north, where response times would be demonstrably worse.

NFPA explanation of response time standards
http://www.nfpa.org/journalDetail.asp?categoryID=1344&itemID=38833&src=NFPAJournal&rss=codes

Google Map of Fire Station Response Time for Hooker School
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=209257630918236675709.00049dfcd0767baba7a52&t=h&z=15

WTNH Video of actual fire in Fair Haven (watch 0:55-1:25 for flame spread speed)
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_haven_cty/fatal-fire-poplar-street-new-haven

posted by: SJB on March 9, 2011  1:10pm

Sounds to me like the department did a poor job of communicating their reasoning to the neighborhood, and failed to convince neighbors that they have performed the necessary analysis behind it. However, at the same time, most of the neighbors probably don’t know much about how the fire department actually operates (nor do I, really). So I don’t think it’s fair to jump to conclusions that response times will worsen. The fire dept is a citywide network and redundancies already have to be built into the system.

Furthermore, the issue about EMS call volume is significant. If 80% of all calls are for EMS service, then shouldn’t residents be praising the dept for improving response times to EMS? You’re 4 times more likely to need that service than to need a fire put out.

posted by: LtMike on March 9, 2011  1:17pm

One concern I can see with the Squad being the only assigned ‘pumper’ in the district is the calls the Squad handles which pull it from district.  Just yesterday it ended up in North Haven for hours because of the need for the foam trailer.  Calls for elevator extrication’s, odors, spills, vehicle extrication’s, children locked in auto’s, in addition to the response of a second squad on all 2nd alarm fires pulls this apparatus out of district.  As far as the ALS unit in quarters, it will be going all over the city for alarms and with down times for assists to the hospitals.  IF the Squads uses are going to be limited and have trucks and other engine assume some of these tasks, it might have eased some of the concerns of the residents.  There is a pressing need for additional ALS and it does bring funds into the general funds.  In comparison in the price of an engine as opposed to a ‘fly car’, we don’t know how often these vehicles are going to be replaced.  The engines last and hold up much longer than the units do at this point.  At this stage, the stat 78% of the calls are medicals… we do not have an EMS chief or supervisor at this stage.  Being on the department and a taxpaying resident, I have concerns.  Just mere hours after this meeting the city suffered a triple fatality fire.  Some people were rescued, as video showed… seconds truly count! Not only for the public’s safety, but for the safety of our fellow firefighter’s.

posted by: streever on March 9, 2011  1:44pm

I am perplexed that the City did not consider cutting some of the administrative overhead instead of reducing fire suppression services in East Rock.

I’ve posted a summary of the meeting here: http://davidstreever.com/news/eastrock-firestation-closure

Highlights below:

1. The assistant chiefs kept saying “this will not be a cut to service”, while admitting that East Rock will lose it’s engine & 2 fire fighters

2. The only other option the Chief claimed to have considered was a massive hiring spree (I believe he said 2 dozen new firefighters) and several new vehicles.

3. They did not have any data on the effect on response times—any—but the Chief assured us that “we did that research, I just don’t have it.” I’m sorry Chief, but maybe you should have brought one of the single most important bits of data to the meeting solely dedicated to this issue?

4. The Chief and his Assistant Chief Pat Egan continually had quiet conferences while residents asked direct questions of them—very odd and disrespectful in my opinion.

I appreciate our Alders organizing this meeting, and thank Justin Elicker and Matt Smith for their efforts. I am extremely frustrated by the complete lack of research and data. If it exists, it would be great to see it: the only objective information we were given last night was:
1. The city had 12000 ALS calls last year
2. The city had less fire calls in 2010 than 2009
3. The city had more ALS calls in 2010 than 2009
4. 2 staff positions would be lost
5. Only two options were considered: an across the board increase in services, city-wide, or a cut in services in the East Rock neighborhood

No information on:
Where were the majority of calls for ALS? Did fire calls drop equally in all areas? Did ALS increase in all areas? What would be the response time without Engine 8? How much will this actually save the city, per year? How much in revenue will be generated?

That the Chief and his Assistants would come to a community meeting dedicated to this issue—which I and almost 50 of my neighbors attended—and fail to provide a full accounting of the decision and the research behind it is insulting and calls into question their respect for our community.

I remain mystified that the city thinks it can continually cut services to East Rock while raising taxes, and do not understand why their were no other options considered.

The Fire Department is an extremely top-heavy department, with multiple “Battalion Chiefs”, Deputy Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs, and more administrators. Why can’t we cut some of the administrative overhead instead of cutting fire service?

posted by: dave coon on March 9, 2011  2:01pm

Are the fire department’s ALS units in competition with private ambulance companies, like American Medical Response?  I have needed an ambulance 3 times in the last 5 years, all non-life threatening events, and every time my family was served by AMR.  The NHFD’s ALS units were not involved.

posted by: Roberrt Narracci on March 9, 2011  2:16pm

The bottom line is that there will come a time when the last Whitney station fire truck is across town and there is a fire in Ronan, East Rock, Goatville, or Edgerton. When that happens, the transit time for another fire truck to get to much of this neighborhood will be much longer than current times and demonstrably longer than the NFPA standard which is 4 minute max.

Prove me wrong Chiefs.

Google Map of Fire Station Response Time for Hooker School
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=209257630918236675709.00049dfcd0767baba7a52&t=h&z=15

posted by: swatty on March 9, 2011  2:26pm

I’m all in favor of the folks in East Rock keeping their fire truck, even though it seems that means not having the proper vehicle 79% of the time. And to responding without getting paid for the responses. 

But then i’d have to say that East Rock tax payers should carry 100% of the load. Vote on that and you’ll see you have a vocal few and a landslide in favor of Chief Grant’s moves.

posted by: SB on March 9, 2011  4:33pm

swatty, fyi, east rock residents already pay more taxes than most other neighborhoods in NH, given the property values there. if we start allocating services by the amount of taxes paid, ER would be a big winner and the rest of the city…not so much.

posted by: non east rock citizen on March 9, 2011  5:24pm

Simple solution and vote out Destefano and then get rid of Grant and Egan who has no experience other than being a jump ship ex union president who sold out the membership to feather his own nest. I would much rather take a chance with another administration than deal with this one and it cronies for another two years.Buy out their contracts and let Grant retire and let egan go sell used cars . Your neighborhood is at jeopardy and the red puppet and his shill are looking to put your lives in harms way.

posted by: Paulette Cohen on March 9, 2011  5:52pm

This is the information I took home from last night’s presentation:

New Haven currently has ten fire stations.

Each of these fire stations has a fire engine truck assigned as a first response engine to the neighborhood in which it is located.

In addition New Haven also has two squad trucks. One is housed at the Whitney Avenue Station, the other at the Ellsworth Station.  Each of these squad trucks is assigned to serve the City at large, as needed, and to be the first response truck, if available, to out of city calls.

The New Haven fire department also currently has 2 ALS (Advanced Life Support) vans, vans that are not equipped to put out fires.  Like the squad fire trucks, the ALS vans are assigned to serve the City at large.  The City would like to double the number of ALS vans to 4, and house one of those vans at the Whitney Avenue fire station.

The City would also like to eliminate Engine 8, which serves the Whitney/East Rock neighborhood. 

Since both the Squad Trucks and the ALS vans are assigned to serve the entire City, let us imagine that the City decides to house the Whitney Avenue Squad Truck and the new ALS van at a different fire station.  Given the citywide mission of both these vehicles, there is no logical reason to prevent them from doing this.  The City could argue that relocating the trucks would be more economical.

If the plan to eliminate the neighborhood first response fire truck, Engine 8, is enacted, and the squad truck and the ALS van are relocated, which is a possibility, the Whitney/East Rock neighborhood would then be left with an empty fire station. 

I imagine that shortly thereafter the Whitney Fire Station would be closed.

The City has an obligation to discuss the elimination of the East Rock neighborhood fire truck, Engine 8,  with the neighborhood.  You cannot ask a neighborhood to accept what could be a life and death decision without providing them, and the rest of the city, with the facts and figures on which the decision is made.  Waving the magic wand of “it’s a done deal” over this will not make us safe.

posted by: Edward Francis on March 9, 2011  5:55pm

“Streever”: The Fire Department is not a top heavy department.  Keep in mind there are four different working divisions.  The city fire response is divided with an East Battalion and West Battalion. Two Battalion Chiefs on each division insure the proper management and safety of firefighters at structural fires and other life threatening incidents.  A Deputy Chief is assigned to each division and is on the scene at all major fires/incidents and covers for Battalion Chiefs who may be at another working incident. The Chief at the top answers to the Board of Fire Commissioners and the Office of the Mayor and is the chief spokesmen for the department and is involved in all the budget/planning issues.  There are two assistant chiefs.  One covers administrative assignments (many) and is in charge in the absence of the Chief.  The other assistant is in charge of operations working with the Deputy Chief and Battalion Chief and that involves major decision making on a day to day basis to keep the department suppression/emergency response fine tuned. Communication comes from the top down. The Chief and two assistants respond to all multiple fires.  The fire department table of organization has no administration overhead.  You just can’t look at a printed budget to understand how the fire department operates.  I would suggest that you examine the job descriptions to be better informed.

posted by: ozzie on March 9, 2011  7:02pm

So what your saying is your taking a piece of apparatus that serves the east rock area out of service. So does that mean the closest help for the North end of Whitney Ave area is A. Dixwell Station (over the Prospect St. Hill) B. Central Station (at Grand Ave and Olive St.) or Lombard St. Station ( which is in Fairhaven )across State St. People in that area should look on a map an see how far away those Firehouses are.
  Obviously Chief Grant is making the cuts at the behest of the Mayor. If I was a taxpayer in that area I’d be wild. That is like closing the Firehouse on Lighthouse Rd and telling the people in Morris Cove don’t worry Engine 5 on Woodward Ave. is just up the Street. Good Luck !!!!!!

posted by: Elmtaxpayer on March 9, 2011  9:43pm

Come now lets be realistic, the Fire Chief doesn’t make any move without direction from his supervisor(s). One thinh you can bet your tax payment on - that is, the FD has little to no stats on its operation let alone what it does for medical calls. Look at the yearly calls and you’ll see a drop in calls they answer. East Rock and Goatville residents should be worried about their fire trucks being there quickly. For those commenting on a top heavy department - sure the NHFD can do away with a few just look at who has reaped the benefits over the past years and what their retirements are. And we are trying to save money whos kidding who? Please someone take the helm that has some inintelligence and can speak to us in a public setting without sidebar conversations and guess and an answer that has no supported facts about city services.

posted by: Cedarhillresident on March 9, 2011  10:15pm

I sadly was unable to make this meeting. But This you look at the map that Robert posted I think that speaks volumes. I am wondering is there not another engine that would be more suitable to take?

I believe that it was not brought up sooner because they are aware how organized the community is, the only thing that can stop something like this is an out pouring…and if needed this area can do that…as we saw last year at the budget meetings.

posted by: streever on March 9, 2011  11:15pm

Edward Francis:
Ah, if only the Fire Department would make such information available to enlighten us poor rubes.

Until I hear otherwise from the Department, I’ll go by what I’ve been told—in person—by firefighters.

posted by: rumor has it on March 9, 2011  11:17pm

that when it was decided that the fire dep was going to add the 2 ambulances there wasnt a big disagreement but when chief grant picked fire truck #8 they didnot all agree.  chief black supported the decision chief egan did not and thought it should be the other one and was told by higherups that he better keep his mouth shut stick by grant and blacks decision because they are the operation guys and remember your not in the union anymore. wonder if he regrets the job change yet.

posted by: Margaret on March 9, 2011  11:26pm

Maybe it would help if we rename the Fire Dept it “The EMS and occasional Fire Department.” 

Or maybe East Rockers would see this differently if there was a city-wide competition for what neighborhood gets to trade in the gigantic unwieldy fire truck for the new, quick, EMS vehicles a la the new recycling bins?

Streever, re: “I remain mystified that the city thinks it can continually cut services to East Rock while raising taxes, and do not understand why their were no other options considered.” You know I love you, but if the chief doesn’t have enough data to satisfy you that this won’t appreciably effect response times, how do you have enough data to know that this is a service cut?

posted by: streever on March 10, 2011  7:40am

Margaret,
Don’t you think the fire chief should have brought some numbers on response time considering he is removing a fire truck?

I think it is common sense to say that when someone is removing 2 fire fighters and a truck from a neighborhood, and leaving behind one fire truck which operates mostly outside of that neighborhood, it is a service cut.

Before this proposal, we have a truck always available: after this proposal, we don’t.

posted by: just concerned on March 10, 2011  7:51am

Hey grant, since you decided to put peoples lives in harms way are you ready to take responsibility for injuries to your firefighters and possibly worse to them and the public. You sir are a public servant the the public is your boss not the mayor! ... 

posted by: About time on March 10, 2011  8:21am

It is about time the the NHFD stepping out of the past and into the reality of their service.  They are an EMS response unit that also has the ability to Fight Fires. 

The numbers of EMS calls and lost revenue by not embracing themselves as true first responders due to some ode to the Fire Fighting past are staggering.  It is more than a flip of the old numbers from the old days.  That flip happened decades ago this is a compounded flip that is now staggering and no serious attempt has been pursued to go for the revenue (bill for the service a la AMR).

The fact that 4 or more guys come to a nosebleed on a truck or engine or whatever and thus take the apparatus out of service while at least two of the paid guys stroll around the truck is an amazing waste of resources.

A van or small 2 person unit could cover all these calls effectively, economically and well.

These same guys could also respond to fires in the thankfully rare occasions when that happens and join forces with the employees assigned to fire fighting apparatus.

In the old days the City was cut in 5 or so districts for EMS and 10 or so for Fire.  The reverse or something like that should be the norm now based on calls. 

Minimum manning was the worst Union deal made during the last round of negotiations.  It must go in favor of appropriate staffing levels.  New Haven appears to have the most Fire Houses, apparatus and Fire fighters per capita in the world.  Really? 

Surrounding towns have volunteer departments for God’s sake, yet we publicize the few fires we have and throw the baby out with the bath water that was filled with a fire house.

If the rumor is that Chief Egan was not in agreement then I suspect that Chief Egan is doing political calculus which is unfortunate.  Had it been embraced by the public I wonder how much credit he would be taking?  The fear mongering and inferno claims are being fanned by Firefighters are self serving and pad their own wallets.

The fact is that the Department is designed backwards and needs to be adjusted.  Two man crews should go on all emergency calls and each house should be staffed with them.  Trucks, squads and engines can be staffed at 5-6 houses strategically located and can be there to exclusively respond to fires and be an emergency backup to EMS calls only when needed.  The City should also go get the revenue from these EMS calls.  This would save money and make money and the Department would go from its annual hundreds of thousands of dollars OVER budget to perhaps living within its means while providing all of the necessary services efficiently, cost effectively and strategically.

posted by: me again on March 10, 2011  9:59am

...Citizens safety doesn’ count unless it his the mayors or Smutts neighborhood.

posted by: streever on March 10, 2011  10:38am

About Time:
I am convinced that we need more EMS. However, there has been no actual evidence given that we need LESS fire response.

Inside talk—for what it is worth—is that this Chief (who opposed increasing our paramedics in 2000/2001, which would have led to revenue growth a decade ago) was told by the Mayor’s office that he HAD to add more EMS services.

The rumor goes that he wanted to buy a new truck for Ellsworth, which apparently has a very old one, but the city wouldn’t give him money for that, just for two ALS units. So, he decided to transfer the East Rock engine to Ellsworth.

I think the decision was a political one, a budget driven decision, and not something actually founded on what our neighborhood needs. If the Chief can’t show us the impact on response times, then I don’t think he has done that research, and I don’t think he should remove a fire engine from our neighborhood without having done that research.

I appreciate his position of needing to lower cost and raise revenue, but can not appreciate his doing so on the backs of my neighbors without even acknowledging it.

posted by: anon on March 10, 2011  12:38pm

Where does it say that the City has to adopt the “National Fire Protection Association standards”?

These are nice guidelines, but we also have the reality of our residents paying their entire income towards housing costs (property tax), and an indebtedness per resident of tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is getting worse by the second. 

The amount saved by moving the fire engine would pay for our libraries to be open 7 days per week. East Rock residents have access to books and libraries but some parts of our city are not as fortunate.

posted by: SB on March 10, 2011  1:04pm

anon, are you serious about comparing safety with having access to libraries? last time I checked, ER didn’t have a branch library. Several other neighborhoods do, albeit with reduced hours. Everyone has access to the main library.

posted by: Angry on March 10, 2011  2:52pm

Hey About Time.  Where did you come up with your facts? The tragic fire two days ago speaks volumes about why the NHFD is staffed the way it is. The same members who fought that tragic fire fought another one on Quinnipiac Ave @ 6am today. The amount of fire companies on scene prevented a much worse situation. Their swift and aggressive actions prevented a bedroom fire from spreading to the attached condo units. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. I’d be willing to bet you’ve never fought a fire or have seen one out of control waiting for one of your five companies to arrive. I have! its’ not fun.

posted by: Should Have seen this coming on March 10, 2011  5:06pm

I guess hind sight is 20/20.  The last few rounds of hirings were for paramedics only.  They haven’t hired just firefighters for quite sometime.

posted by: streever on March 10, 2011  6:06pm

Anon,

according to the Fire Chief on Monday, he says we do.

If you are looking for places to make up the budget hit we’ll take in retaining 2 fire fighters (which is the only cost we’d absorb in keeping Engine 8) let me propose three:

-Not laying off 16 officers we’d JUST trained for almost 1 million dollars knowing that we are losing a ton of officers to retirement next year and will need to spend another million training their replacements

-Don’t fill the Assistant Chiefs positions at almost $300,000

-Not buying a $60,000 ALS unit, but instead having one of the existing, already hired, paramedics operate off Engine 8 with ALS equipment.

Engine 8 is almost 14 years old and running great. The engines are the first responders even when ALS IS called, so why not have the ALS technician on-board the engine?

Firefighters proposed doing this in 2003, and were shot down by the Chief, who was not interested in ALS work because he ran a fire department, not a paramedic service.

Just think, if we’d listened to the rank and file fire fighters 8 years ago, maybe we wouldn’t be in this position now.

posted by: moreorless on March 10, 2011  8:00pm

To Anon;  OSHA says so.  Where do you think OSHA gets its data and guidelines for firefighter safety? They don not do their own research on every area of labor.  In the fire service, they usually rely on studies and industry acceptable safety standards done by the NFPA, NAFC (Nat. Assoc. Fire Chiefs), NIST (Nat Inst. Standards and Tech.), and other fire related agencies.  This is why NFPA is important.

To Dave Coon,
No the FD is not in competition with AMR.  AMR provides transport services and back-up ALS services for the City of New Haven.  Your calls may not have fit into the ALS dispatch protocol; which if your problems were ALS—both paramedic trucks were probably already on ALS calls and AMR was providing the back-up service.

posted by: anon on March 10, 2011  8:12pm

rumor: Being there and trying to listen it seemed like the both Assistant Chiefs Black and Egan supported Chief Grant’s decision and Black talked about some operations and response things and Egan some of the finance side when asked. I did have a question but it was almost impossible to ask because the alderman kept calling on the same 6 or 7 people.

posted by: a distant admirer on March 10, 2011  9:53pm

.... east rocker’s take care of their houses, other neighborhoods don’t. that area is least likey to have a fire, and is easily reached by central station/lombard/dixwell engines.
if it wasn’t for the airport, engine 17 has no (fire) work in morris cove. there’s not (fire) work in westville either, so if it did not cover such a huge expanse, engine 15 could go as well, they already deleted ladder truck 5 from there due to lack of work.
somebody said it best…more 2-man units for emergency/injury work, let the remaining engines respond to the fire work. that keeps cost down, a better revenue stream, and keeps firemen more productive.
the unbelievable thing is there used to three two-man emergency units on small panel-trucks, and someone made the decision to convert them to 5-man response units on giant fire-engines. new haven almost had it right 40 years ago…

posted by: Moreorless on March 11, 2011  12:32am

To A Distant Admirer,

It is Eng. 16 you are referring to…The amount of residential fires in that area may not be as high as Fairhaven, but they still happen in the cove.  In the last 10 years there have been several, in fact, one of them was where the NHFD almost lost an officer due to high winds and rapid fire spread.

Seriously Eng. 15—look up the stats of how many fires occurred on Valley St, Brookside, Wayfarer, even in the circle.  ...

The old 4 unit system (2 ALS, 2 BLS) was inefficient which is why it changed.  Paramedics only responded to calls in limited service areas—if you did not live there, then you got BLS services—it was not a well thought out plan.  ... You could cut the fire service down 5 engines and 5 2 man units if you wanted to play the odds—but you would lose very quickly. ...

posted by: MIKE on March 11, 2011  1:13am

Maybe New Haven should look at the elimination of one of the Squads and making one designated Rescue Company. Take a good look at Bridgeport, Hartford, Providence,R.I., Springfield,Ma., Worcester,MA. These are comparable cities with most with larger populations, and just as much or larger square miles, and they all operate with one heavy rescue company that does hazmat,extrication, high angle, water rescue,etc. The only difference is New Haven has pumps on the trucks. Wake up and smell the coffee. New Haven really doesn’t need two of these rigs. That’s how you rectify the problem. In reality, New Haven only needs one Squad. You keep the Engine Company 8 in service.

posted by: Robert Narracci on March 11, 2011  9:48am

You don’t plan for the fire you had yesterday, you plan for the one you might have tomorrow.

Yes the statistics say that fires are less frequent in East Rock, but they do occur; ask Charlie Pillsbury. 

This decision should be reversed based upon response times, not frequency of fires.

posted by: lance on March 11, 2011  2:45pm

in a few years the city will be so broke the east rockers will have to stomp any fires out with their birenstocks.

posted by: SB on March 11, 2011  2:51pm

@lance, what a brilliant contribution to this important discussion. thank you.

posted by: a distant admirer on March 11, 2011  8:36pm

to moreorless:
16, 17…you get the picture…an engine in morris cove is only there because of the spectre of disaster due to the airport. the woodward ave engine is never more than minutes away. once the fire-boat went away, the order of desire for older firemen goes just like this…1) morris cove 2)east grand ave 3)fountain st…those are the least worked engines.
and as far as rockview/brookside/oriental gardens…they’re almost fire-proof brick and cinderblock buildings anyways. what’s left of them.

posted by: River to State on March 12, 2011  9:25am

MIKE, your idea has been tossed around but your vision of progression is just a little skewed. At one time New Haven had 2 “ttackunits” AKA rescue companies as you describe. These companies were disbanded due to money problems in , I believe, the early 90’s. One Of the problems with the tac-units was they only served one function, they were essentially a tool box on wheels that carried personnel to an alarm. The apparatus itself served no purpose.

Example; if you lived in Goatville when Engine 8 and Tac-1 were in service out of Whitney Station, and you had a fire at your house, but Engine 8 was at a fire alarm in district, Tac-1 would be “first in” but without a pump to supply an attack line you still waited for the next engine to arrive to start attacking the fire.

Whenever municipalities look to cut fire apparatus they always look at rescue companies first. Waterbury just did this. The reason for this is 90% of the time a Rescue Company is a “support” company. I am not saying the duties of the Rescue Companies are not important but they do not have the equipment to “put the fire out” or “get the roof”. Typically Rescue Companies are highly trained firefighters (who paid for and attended outside training themselves) who are trained in Hazardous Material response, vehicle and machinery extrication, high and low angle rope rescue, elevator entrapment, confined space rescue, trench rescue and a host of other rescue disciplines. While these types of alarms are a small percentage politicians would rather “roll the dice” with the Rescue Company and just cross their fingers that when the alarm hits for a technical rescue call that the remaining companies can handle them.

Now look at New Havens transition from Tac-Unit (Rescue Company) to Rescue-Pumper ( Squad Company). In the 90’s the Tac-unit out of Dixwell Station was disbanded and the Tac-Unit out of Whitney Station covered the entire city. When the writing was on the wall that the city wanted more cuts from the FD the FD administration had to come up with a plan to continue service of the Tac-Units. With the ever evolving advances in fire apparatus the city purchased it’s first Rescue Pumper. A Rescue Pumper is an engine that has all the capabilities of an Engine but is larger and configured to carry all the equipment of a Rescue. This apparatus was assigned to Engine 8 and covered 8’s district and the entire city for rescues and haz-mats.  In 2000 the FD administration saw a need to reorganize. All engines were now responding on BLS medicals within their districts and the increasing responsibilities of Engine 8 as the only “Rescue” warranted a change. The Department disbanded 3 BLS Emergency Units and added another ALS Emergency Unit for a total of 2. The city then converted Engine 8 to Squad 1 and put in service another pumper to become Engine 8, these units are housed at Whitney Station. They then added Squad 2 on Ellsworth Ave which is housed with Engine 9. 

The Squads are constantly training and mastering their rescue duties all while serving as a fully functional Engine Company and BLS first responder. Whenever you hear of a technical rescue in New Haven you can rest assure BOTH Squads were there because most of these operations require much more trained personnel than the 5 assigned to each Squad.

Now knowing that a dedicated Rescue Company would be the first on the chopping block was the FD smart and progressive or behind the times? I’d have to say that they were progressive because they just saved there rescue program without severely impacting fire protection. Remember, prior to the reorganization Engine 8 covered the ENTIRE city for rescue work, now they cover half with the occasional “big one” with Squad 2 or out of the city response. PLUS Whitney will be getting an ALS unit which is a tremendous improvement. Will it cover other areas of the city when there unit is out?? Absolutely, but the other Units will be taken out of there districts in the event YOUR unit is out. The bottom line is under the new plan there will be a slight reduction in fire service (most can be addressed with changes in dispatch protocol) and an increase in EMS coverage still leaving the area with better overall protection before the 2000 reorganization.

I do not believe ANY apparatus should be taken off duty. There are times when we are stretched very thin with regards to coverage. Taking apparatus off duty endangers the lives of residents, visitors, and the firefighters of this city. Make no mistake about it seconds count in the fire service and reduction in staffing will have an impact. But I have to say that if I had to choose between taking an Engine or a Squad off duty it would be a no-brainer. The Squad does everything an Engine can do plus function as a Rescue Company… The Engine would go. The FD administration has essentially ensured that this city will ALWAYS be covered with regards to rescue incidents.

The true tragedy is that the politicians want to sacrifice public safety to save a few bucks. Can costs be trimmed in the FD budget? Of course. But taking front line fire apparatus off duty is not one of them. If the city wants to increase revenue on EMS bundle billing then by all means add an ALSunit or 2 but dont sacrifice fire protection. It may not have an impact today, tomorrow, or even next year but this decision will undoubtedly cause an increase of property loss or god forbid a death. It really is a shame.

The dedicated men and women of the New Haven Fire Department will always be there for the people of this city. All we ask is you give us the equipment and staffing we need to do our job.

posted by: Firefighter longtime on March 13, 2011  1:48pm

I am opposed to this move also but Whitney Station didn’t have 2 pumps running out of there 12 years ago. When I came on there was an Engine and a Truck running out of Whitney Station and there are very few members on the department now that were there, they lost a hook and ladder a much more valuable tool. It happened and it’s going to happen again. Residents of Whitney District you will be covered with the best of both worlds fire protection from Squad 1 and Advanced Life Support from 1 of the 2 new fly cars. I think you are quite lucky. The Fire Department loses an officer spot only. Every district is at risk when there assigned apparatus is out at another call that is just the way it is. How about the fine people of Fair Haven when Engine 10 and Truck 3 are tied up at that terrible fire that claimed 3 lives. They still had protection just another minute or two away. That’s the nature of the beast. People of Whitney district you will be protected by the best FD around. Sleep easy we got your back. New Haven Fire Lieutenant that started my career at Engine 8.