New Haven Independent

posted by: Joey on June 30, 2009  8:30am

So much for that unity rally!

posted by: James on June 30, 2009  8:57am

Tinney, NAACP, Firebirds, et al crossed the line when they sought to invoke Title VII not to ensure a level playing field, but one that was unfairly slanted in their favor. I agree with Tinney that this whole episode has dealt a blow to race relations, but I would suggest that it is Tinney and his ilk that have dealt the blow by seeking to abuse Title VII for their own gain. You’ve cast a pall over all legitimate cases of discrimination and made it harder for those entitled to justice to receive it.

posted by: Big City Esq on June 30, 2009  9:52am

Gary, Its time for you to heal brother. You lost. There are some facts that you need to clear up but since you won’t I will.

The IAFF was of no help to the New Haven 20. They did not file an amicus brief. There is no white firefighters organization unlike the ... racially exclusive group that represents you, the IABPFF.

Nobody I know would waste thier time doing anything to you. You are making inflammatory remarks and comments ...

As I recall it, the only one involved in this whole mess that had any retaliation against them was Ben Vargas. ...

I suggest when you make your divisive and inflammatory remarks, you look down on that red shirt and reflect on the clasped black and white hands.

posted by: john on June 30, 2009  9:55am

What I take away from the decision is that it is no longer is it permissible to jettison exam results simply because the powers-that-be don’t like the result.

That, to me, seems like the greatest civil rights victory imaginable.

Arguments that the tests are intrinsically biased against blacks are questionable (and the city never argued this, no doubt in part because there was no evidence thereof).

Those who would suggest otherwise are buying into what the Reverend Wright told the NAACP audience awhile back, “that black children are “creative, oral” learners who get information from other people, while whites are ones who are left-brain learners, of the sort given to working in “solitude in a carrel in a Ph.D. program stuffed off somewhere in a corner in absolute quietness.”” (John McWhorter, NY Sun Editorial 4/30/08).

The racist demagoguery displayed in the Rev.‘s comments (shades of our own Rev. Kimber?), infects discourse in and about some quarters of the African American community, preventing us all from having frank discussions about real societal problems, their true causes, and true effects.

Without doubt, such an attitude remains a principal obstacle, which more than anything must be overturned if there is ever to be true equality for all Americans and diversity in the workplace and beyond.

posted by: Jimmie Griffin on June 30, 2009  10:04am

What really bothers me about any ruling this supreme court makes is the mere fact, that the very argument they make about Sonia Sotomayer’s judicial activism and empathy, seems to play into most decisions they make.
As a matter of fact look at simuilarities and the inconsistancies of the two courts, the second district US Court Appeals with a 2 to 1 vote and Supreme Court with a 5 to 4 vote in both cases it could be said that one court was more liberal than the other in their trends.
I am sick and tired of hearing about following the rule of law and the question of interperting the constitution. Take for example the Dred Scott case and the 15th amendment, were it could be aruged that the judicial overreacted.
I know laws are written and passed by congress to be interperted by the judicial branch as too their aplication but knowone in the right mind can say that judges abide by originalism because in matters of race or gender too many conservatives abandon it!

posted by: Walt on June 30, 2009  10:21am

Tinney and the NAACP seem to say that black firemen are dumb as nails,  cant perform well enough on   tests which have been deemed pertinent and must automatically be given positions for which they have no chance of qualifying.

What an insult to the current Black New Haven firemen!

Face it Black “leaders” ,  you lost and lost badly via the Supremes.

Take a new tack,  Motivate and train the Black firemen instead of just your continued whining and moaning.  Then, unless they are the lazy dopes   you try to make them out to be,  some will most likely   score high enough to actually earn a promotion next time around.

posted by: Alphonse Credenza on June 30, 2009  10:31am

Lt. Tinney and the NAACP want special privileges for certain races.  This is, frankly, as unAmerican as Jim Crow laws were.

What the city wants—or should want—are firefighters with the intellect and education to understand the increasingly technical nature of their job.

posted by: LANCE on June 30, 2009  10:54am

leave it to the far left afro-centric independent to even continue to give tinney a sounding board for his race hustling.

posted by: cedarhillresident on June 30, 2009  10:54am

http://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html

posted by: jack on June 30, 2009  10:56am

Next time, prepare for the exam, and don’t assume getting a free pass based on nothing more than your race or ethnicity.Rid yourselves of the professional race baiters who do nothing more than enrich themselves and condemn their own people to life in the permanent underclass.

posted by: THREEFIFTHS on June 30, 2009  11:13am

If Race is not the point,Then How come West Haven Has only one African-American FireFighter and No Woman or Latino FireFighters? P.S. I also forgot the State Marshals,How many Woman and People of color are State Marshals?

posted by: Pedro d'Ibazo on June 30, 2009  11:42am

... How can New Haven ever get beyond the painful miscarriage of justice done to “The 20” when people like Tinney keep garnering all this divisive attention?

posted by: James on June 30, 2009  12:25pm

Not sure, 3/5s. How many African Americans applied in West Haven? How many women or Latinos? What is the West Haven selection process? Were there qualified black/female/latino applicants that were qualified and turned down for no obvious reason? Do you know all of the firefighters in West Haven and are you sure that your account of racial representation is correct?

Point is, without any facts in your post you doing nothing more than rabble rousing. Maybe there is a problem in West Haven. Maybe there isn’t. What is your point and what does it have to do with the recent SCOTUS decision? More importantly, who ever said this wasn’t about race?

posted by: Pedro d'Ibazo on June 30, 2009  12:51pm

I don’t know who is more divisive to our community—Tinney or Boise Kimber. Look at Tinney practically begging people to send him hate mail so he can continue this one-man campaign of bigotry disguised as a noble civil rights effort. How can New Haven ever get beyond the painful miscarriage of justice done to “The 20” when people like Tinney keep garnering all this divisive attention?

posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS on June 30, 2009  12:53pm

Even though the supreme court ruled against the over-reaching of the “disparate impact” argument, the black firefighters absolutely DO have a legitimate and justifiable complaint with the government.  But at its core, the problem is no a civil rights complaint.  It is an equal education complaint.

Given the disparity in the delivery of education, clearly based on race and income in our state, the better lawsuit should have been brought against the state of Connecticut for willful neglect of its own constitutional mandate:  the right to an equal education for all of its citizens.

The firefighters test favored those who have had the benefit of a decent education.  And it can be shown very clearly that black and hispanic students have not had the benefit of an equal education experience in our state. 

If we can successfully change the quality of the education system in New Haven, in the future we will see firefighters test results which more closely reflect the general racial and ethnic diversity of the test taking pool.

posted by: THREEFIFTHS on June 30, 2009  1:12pm

James
I know of African Americans And Latinos who had Applied and have been turn down for no reason!! In fact I know that the my account of racial representation is correct due to the fact that I know the one African American FireFighter!!! Also
here is there website: <a href=“http://www.nearhome.com/ct/westhaven/fire/” rel=“nofollow”>http://www.nearhome.com/ct/westhaven/fire/</a>
If you look at the website you will see a picture
One of the African American FireFighter who is now retired. Also I called the West Haven Fire department and they told Me that there is only one African American FireFighter.May be you should
call and ask them why!!!! P.S. Can you also tell me why East Haven and West Haven Only have one African American Female Police Officer in there Department? And you did not answer my question on the Hiring in the State Marshals!!

posted by: Alphonse Credenza on June 30, 2009  2:16pm

“Given the disparity in the delivery of education…”

You mean black people don’t have the individual initiative to overcome the odds?  I know many blacks who have come from poor families in lousy school districts who encouraged their children to study and work with the seriousness of purpose necessary to overcome them. 

Stop complaining.  We are all dealt cards from the same deck—it’s what we do with what we’ve been dealt that counts.

posted by: Analyze on June 30, 2009  2:24pm

Lets review some of Tinney’s comments,

1.“It’s going to set us back 45 years in” How So?
All SCOTUS said is in sitations such as this employers must have a strong basis of evidence. This benefits everyone, an employer can not now just disregard employment exams that are fair.

2.He accused the Supreme Court of “changing the rules in the middle of the game”
What did the city do after it threw out the exams? The city is the ones who changed the rules in the middle of the game, for the firefighters who earned promotions and had them stripped from them under the guise of title VII.

3.Tinney added that the ruling doesn’t even necessarily order the city to certify the results of the test in question.
From SCOTUS:“Our holding today clarifies how Title VII applies to resolve competing expectations under the disparatetreatment and disparate-impact provisions. If, after it certifies the test results, the City faces a disparate-impact
suit, then in light of our holding today it should be clear that the City would avoid disparate-impact liability based
on the strong basis in evidence that, had it not certified the results, it would have been subject to disparatetreatment
liability.”
Read between the lines, When the city certifies the exams they can not be subject to disparate impact claims from minority firefighters

4.“It doesn’t end here,”
See Gary this is where you are wrong, it is over. The promotions will be granted and you will be a lieutenant for life, not such a bad spot. Refocus your mission and look at the world without your racial blinders. It is a beautiful day in the NHFD, for everybody

posted by: Mongo on June 30, 2009  3:04pm

Hey, FIX THE SCHOOLS ...  you do not hold everybody accountable.  You hold only teachers and administrators accountable.  You haven’t the slightest clue the abuse teachers deal with or how much of their own money they pour into their students and classrooms.

Unfortunately for many of our students, they have irresponsible parents who don’t show for parent-teacher conferences, who don’t help their children with academics at home, who don’t even consistently send their kindergarteners to school with a bookbag or jacket when it’s freezing.

No Child Left Behind everybody but parents accountable.  It’s time the law changes to penalize such irresponsible parents.

ALSO:  I wonder how many of the New Haven 20 went to New Haven public schools.  Because I know many white, latino and black people who went to a NHPS and are successful, intelligent contributors to society.

posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS on June 30, 2009  3:55pm

Alphonse Credenza,

We are not all dealt cards from the same deck.  That is what discrimination was all about.  The deck was stacked for a long time. 

We as a society are not as discriminating as we used to be in many aspects.  But if you look at the KEY function of our government in the 21st century (ensuring that America has the intellectual and innovative capacity to compete globally), we still do discriminate.  The academic achievement results do not lie. 

And it is not simply about individual initiative or the lack thereof. Your parents (assuming you are not black) did not come here and live in chains for 300 years.  Some immigrants may have had it tough, but the comparison to slavery is not even close. Jim Crow laws didn’t even start to be repealed in many states until the 1960s. 

We as a society have systematically deprived the African-American community of the benefits of a quality education system.

If our government made a law that limited social security benefits for black people to only half of the benefits granted to whites, it would be far less damaging than our decision not to implement an equal system of education.

So instead of arguing to LOWER the bar for minorities, John Britton and other civil rights attorneys should be RAISING the bar by suing states (starting with Connecticut) that drag their feet on the Obama/Duncan quality education initiatives.

What would they argue?  How about suing the state for allowing labor unions to dictate schooling policy which directly conflicts with quality education in public schools?  Or how about suing a government which requires no accountability from its district administrators for their education outcomes?  The desired remedy would be to deliver education successfully so that everyone can have the skill set to finally take their seat at the economic table.

Setting aside the results of fairly administered tests is not the answer for the future.  Rather, it is to ensure that everyone has the ability to compete fairly on those tests.

posted by: Bill on June 30, 2009  4:47pm

The whole notion of comparing percentages of groups in the general population is completely bogus. The percentages of Italian, Asians, Jews and many other groups are also under represented but that does not mean there is discrimination. There are cultural reasons and motivational reasons. In some groups there is a history a being a fireman or being a policeman and children follow in their parents footsteps. If you look at all jobs, from baker to shoe maker you will not find homogeneous groups of people. Get a life.

posted by: COLD on June 30, 2009  5:38pm

Guys,

  Stop whining and weeping, we love whites, blacks, hispanics, males and females but you failed to score high enough on a fair exam, end story.  Now for politics, Boise led you down a bad path and that just embarrassed your plight nationally, stop crying tears and move on and a little advice from the wise start studying so we can get some brothers in the next round of promotions.

If you want to talk politics why can’t you and your buddies produce a viable candidate to run this City?  Answer please just answer New Haven.

posted by: factchecker on June 30, 2009  5:56pm

Uniforms? Gary is that the best you can do?

Firebirds were the ones that started exploiting the uniform. New Haven took the Q from you…

posted by: shockedandappauled on June 30, 2009  6:43pm

Watkins, very disappointing how you have played both sides of the fence here, your actions are that of a man with very little moral character.
You stand up there and denounce the very exam that will promote you.
... today you reamerge with the firebirds, the very group who sold you out and took your badge to say again how you will continue the fight.
I’ll tell you what, if you have just one ounce of dignity in you, when the city does offer you a promotion off that test you should turn the badge down on principle. But you won’t

Gary, ... the supreme court has spoken, what the city did was wrong you knew it then and deep down you know it now.
Be a man, concede, and lets put all this behind us and get back to the business of protecting the citizens of new haven.
And please stop with the noose and racist poem stuff you know that it is not true. As far as the IAFF they were reporting news regarding the fire service. The IAFF never took a stance on the Ricci case and you know it, you are just trying to provoke racial tensions and it needs to stop. If you truly want “unity” it starts with you, and it requires you to stop preaching these lies and hate to anyone who will listen. All they do is cause more division.

posted by: Big City Esq on June 30, 2009  8:09pm

Gary, do you hear that?........It’s me yawning. We are all tired of that story.

posted by: k on June 30, 2009  8:18pm

To fix the schools ..you ask credenza if his parents were slaves,well were your parents slaves? Bill has posted the best comment on here.Never mind how many black,white and female firefighters there are.I want to know how many gay,asian,jewish,mexican,transexual and bisexual firefighters there are in the city.Descrimination is beyond black but black people dont see it.What about the dont ask,dont tell policy ...at least blacks dont get kicked out of the army for being black.We have the firebirds,the black nurses association,, but where is the white group and the gay group and mexican group for these same jobs???

posted by: Bill Saunders on June 30, 2009  9:02pm

If you read Alito’s concurring opinion, a white, dyslexic firefighter, who studied 8-13 hours a day,  and needed remedial materials to master the test was overlooked for promotion because of these backroom antics.

Race vs. The Handicapped.
Entitlement over Ability.

Pathetic people.

Get over this, and let’s focus on getting John out of office. (through legal channels, not the voting booth)

Any good pro bono lawyers out there??

posted by: kamb on June 30, 2009  10:13pm

READ THIS:

Whats all this talk from Tinney about little kids not being able to look up to hispanic, black, and female firefighter because of this ruling?!

Give me a break Tinney!

Kids of the future (black, white, hispanic, etc) should be happy that they will be judged on their scores and NOT THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN!

Get over it Tinney! And STUDY harder next time!

NHFD: Diverse - Equality - Merit

posted by: More than Concerned - Disconserted on June 30, 2009  10:43pm

Tinney.  I once worked for the city.  I got pretty good at what I was doing when I was forced out ... to make room for a more ethnically representative worker.  What am I doing now?  I’m picking up a new skill and I am - at this moment - studying to get better at what I’m doing now.  Get with man.  Acting like you deserve to get ahead when you couldn’t be bothered to try hard enough is disgusting.  ...

posted by: Moreorless on June 30, 2009  11:47pm

Dear Gary,
Get your facts straight once and for all.  There are at least 23 minority supervisors in the NHFD, and that is off the top of my head.  2 Asst Chiefs, 1 DC, 3 Capt.‘s, and at least 13 Lt.‘s. One in the FM office.  You are a liar and fabricator.  I cannot believe the independent does not do some research to verify Tinney’s claims.  ...

posted by: Ohhh on July 1, 2009  1:46am

... There was never any “noose” dropped at the NHFD - and if one is found somewhere, there’s a 99% chance that Tinney or a Firebird, not a white guy, will plant it. Many such incidents have occurred in the wake of blacks losing a race case - look it up - time after time they’ve gotten caught planting a noose to falsely portray blacks as victims of workplace harassment, knowing the liberals will run with it.  Google it.  It happened in the Baltimore FD, and other places. ...

posted by: notimon on July 1, 2009  9:14am

slavery started this mess, blacks have always been denied opportunities and now it has become the fabric of American Life. Racism will always remain in America and will never change. Martin Luther King dream is now a night mare for most blacks.

posted by: LtMike on July 1, 2009  10:39am

Misguided souls.  It is a shame.  Any divisive atmosphere in the firehouse stems from comments and ideologies like this.  These guys are all smart enough to realize the game yet are playing ignorant with it and putting a spin on things.  Really, I am for open dialogue on improving systems (testing, hiring, training, etc), but it has to be proactive NOT reactive in nature.  Why was there no push to change the testing after Lt Tinney (and numerous other minorities) got promoted on the previous officers exam, only after the results of the 2003 exam?  I am just curious.  I chose NOT to take the exam (2003) because so few captain positions were available.  I was NOT going to spend as much time, as I am sure the top scorers were going to. I also felt the politics involved in this city of ours would make this diverse and political (figuring Brian and Matt would top the list), that might leave a half dozen spots.  I, because of the ‘game’ that is played felt I had no shot at being promoted, so why bother! It is sad that I (and others) would not take an exam for reasons like this.  When the legitimate scores are posted, the exam gets thrown out? That just reinforced my point of view.  It took SIX plus years to get a legitimate exam to stand.  SAD! The one thing I will agree with that has been said, is that if you score high on the exam it does not mean automatically you are a better officer.  BUT those are the rules and have been the rules.  Also, there is NO way to test for the intangibles, it is just not practical. My heart does go out to any of you that put in the hard work and really wanted this promotion (just as it does with whites and Hispanics) that put in the time and had the desire but did not achieve a high enough score for advancement.  Stand proud of the knowledge you have gained and continue doing the job well. In sports the best teams do not always win and in this case just maybe this holds true as well. But to think this is such a set back, todays society (especially in New Haven), does not impeded the progress of minorities.  This mayor is very pro advancement.  When you spin about the officer break down of the department, look at the stats of the third floor and the Training school (67% minority 3rd floor and 100% minority Training Division).  Nationally we have elected an African American president.  We as a society are moving in the right direction.  It is when race is thrown in your face, used as a crutch, you hamper your movement and create resentment.  I am happy that the political machine and agendas played no part in that promotional list of 2003.  Now I wished I had a little faith in the system rather than skeptisism I did.

posted by: cba on July 1, 2009  11:10am

The Supreme Court has ruled and its decision should be implemented,and all those who earned their appointment should be promoted.  However, the next step in this process should be implementation of a mandatory uniform education program with remedial support for all those who seek promotion, so that the field is level,but the individual’s success is dependent on his abilities.  This insures the City will have most qualified personnel in its department.

posted by: Alphonse Credenza on July 1, 2009  2:47pm

FIX THE SCHOOLS:  Yes, all the cards come from the same deck.  You are under the misimpression that, in one lifetime, only wonderful things happen to the few lucky who were born to it, and in another’s lifetime, only miserable things happen, and no individual drive can change it.  And blacks are the latter, in your view.  That is a simplification which does not gibe with my life experience.  People with the gene for cancer—shall we give them special opportunities?  Or Jews, who’ve been oppressed the world over for millenia?  what about the Irish, hated by the English and Americans in the 1840s?  who else has a defect or an attribute which could possibly be interpreted to stand in his way?  what does the world owe them?

You believe a world that existed 6 generations ago determines what a child born today can expect of life.  Talk about chains!  But blacks are now judges, doctors, professors—performing as well and as poorly as whites—today.  You don’t need the sob story; Jews don’t either.  Stop complaining and making the assertion that blacks are incapable of pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps.  Blacks do not, as you say, need a handout or a step-up because of 19th century history.

posted by: Jimmie Griffin on July 1, 2009  3:51pm

I have been following all the commentary, as well the racist statements coming from both sides of this whole controversy. As I stated earlier, this court has been more activist than any court in recent history and yet we constantly hear opposition to that same kind of attitude coming from those on the right who would confirm. We know what the courts should do in their intepertation of the law, but for them not to have some form of reference in making legal decisions, and no empathy at the same time is an impossible dream. It is unfortunate that all the laws of this land after enacted by the congress, leaves so much responsibility on a nine member panel that is slanted toward right wing conservative veiws and split decisions of 5 to 4 on all major rulings. This court has always unequally dominated by white men who would always show more empathy toward eachother to maintian their position of control thoughout the history of this nation. Until we change the total complexsion of the court we will always get these type of decisions.

posted by: PJ on July 1, 2009  4:05pm

I would encourage all who have made posts to this story to read the ruling. There were many facts that I had not been made aware. For example, Industrial/Organizational Solutions, Inc. (ISO) the company New Haven hired from Illinois to develop and administer these promotional exams, at every stage of the job analyses, IOS, by deliberate choice, oversampled minority firefighters to ensure that the results—which they would use to develop the examinations—would not unintentionally favor white candidates. (page 4 of ruling)

Each test had 100 questions, and was written below a 10th grade reading level. (page 5 of ruling).

The City of New Haven sought the opinion of Vincent Lewis, a fire program specialist for the Department of Homeland Security and retired fire captain from Michigan. Lewis, who is black, had looked “extensively” at the lieutenant exam and “a little less extensively” at the captain exam. He stated that the candidates “should know that material.” In Lewis’s view, the “questions were relevant for both exams,” and the New Haven candidates had an advantage because the study materials identified the particular book chapters from which the questions were taken. In other departments, by contrast, “you had to know basically the . . . entire book.” (page 11 of ruling)

The City of New Haven took every precaution to make this test race neutral and when they did not receive the desired results, they simply did not certify the tests.  Shame on the Destefano Administration!

LTMIKE, please elaborate on your comments. I am a bit concerned about “I, because of the ‘game’ that is played felt I had no shot at being promoted, so why bother!” Please tell me that you do not approach your job with this attitude.

posted by: The Count on July 1, 2009  4:16pm

Haven Tinney and Rawlings heard?: An African-American was elected President of the United States. The civil rights struggle is over!

posted by: Maria Garriga on July 1, 2009  5:09pm

Unity folks. Debate is important. These issues are important. But we at the end of the day, we have to remember our relationships and friendships that cross all issues, lawsuits and court rulings.

Help the firefighters heal. It’s got to be tough working together under these circumstances, combined with inflammatory comments and intense public scrutiny. These are just ordinary people and private citizens whose lives have been catapulted onto a public stage.  Be kind.

Paul—great article, very lucid. Comments by Lt. Mike, Analyze and others really helped me understand the situation more clearly. These issues will remain, but let’s play nice, and remember that our relationships must transcend the debate. There will always be more fires to fight.

posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS on July 1, 2009  5:44pm

Alphonse,

Education is not a hand-out.  It is not a preference program.  An education is the great equalizer.  Giving someone the same chance to win a fair race is not the same thing as welfare, imposing racial quotas, or even affirmative action laws.

Of course I believe in individual ability to overcome great odds.  But given the “disparate impact” of our (the U.S.) oppression on an entire class and race of citizens, it is incumbent upon our country to make some reparation by leveling the playing field.  Do you think that the U.S. is today not still benefitting from 350 years of free slave labor which served as the foundation of our global agricultural and manufacturing dominance?  Where do you think all of that value went?  Just disappeared?

If you purposely run someone over in your car, do you owe them anything?  Or is it just their own tough luck for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?  And then, when they are expected to compete in a foot race the next week, should they receive any special consideration?

Affirmative Action would say that they should be given a 100 yard headstart on the track to compensate for their injuries.  I disagree. I would say that they should be given expert medical treatment for their injuries at your expense, time to heal, a pair of the same track shoes that you have - and then they should be allowed to line up at the starting line right along side you.

Education is not hand-out.  It is a necessity so that we can live in a successful democracy, create a flourishing economy, and finally recognize social justice.

posted by: Concerned on July 1, 2009  6:25pm

It is so concerning to use the race card to achieve results. To hire somebody because he/she is black, hispanic… is an outdated and skewed policy that needs to be eliminated. This is the same policy that has also kept these same people believing that they are not good enough on their own to achieve-WRONG.

All these firefighters had the same opportunity afforded to them to study and pass the test. Unofrtunately as they say not everyone can become chief.

There comes a time when injustices to all people have to stop. YOu study you pass you don’t you fail. This is the system that is in place to select the most qualified candidates. Do we do the same for black medical students who do not pass the medical/law school exams?

posted by: suze on July 1, 2009  9:56pm

New Haven hired 30 board members to conduct the oral section of the examination and 20 of them were minorities and each three person panel that examined a firefighter had 2 minorities on the panel. And still the whites and 3 (not 1) Hispanics scored high enough to rate a promotion. Many other white, Hispanic and Black firefighters also passed the exam but did not score high enough to rate a promotion.

The written section consisted of questions that had been validated as being related to what firefighters do and there was even a list of the references that were used for writing the test published three months before the test.

Despite all this, it still wasn’t enough to satisfy those who want to discount earning a promotion on merit. By throwing out the results that didn’t give the results they wanted, the City discriminated based on color against those who happened to be white. Go figure!

posted by: THREEFIFTHS on July 2, 2009  8:48am

This is nothing new,This case is the same as Allan Bakke,Check these websites out.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/bakke.html

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/affirmativeaction.htm

posted by: Alphonse Credenza on July 2, 2009  1:20pm

FIX THE SCHOOLS

The flaw in your argument is the assumption is that blacks—because their skins is black—are cripples.

If this isn’t a buy-in to white racist ideology which holds that blacks are inferior and incapable of doing for themselves, I don’t know what is.

posted by: ed on July 2, 2009  2:37pm

If you are black and want a firefighting job or promotion, then outscore others on the test.  Stop complaining and study.

posted by: you gotta b kidding me on July 3, 2009  6:28am

It’s hard to believe it’s almost 2010 and people are still blinded from reality.The white firemen ,like the white policemen, have access to the questions and answers to these test.Then you have to look at whose giving these test and scoring test then ask yourself if blacks, not minorities, are competing on a level field. there is a woman from human resources who have been working with the hispanic officers (HMMMM she’s the one sittinging in on the test)..I’ve been around most of these guys for years and believe me they’re no rocket scientist.If you want a level testings field then put an equal number of blacks in human resources and have more black score these test.

posted by: FIX THE SCHOOLS on July 3, 2009  11:18am

Alphonse,

The term “injured” is more appropriate.  “Crippled” connotes a permanent disability, perhaps even one with which you are born. 

Injuries, on the other hand are caused by external force, and if properly treated can and do heal completely.

posted by: YOU GOT THAT RIGHT on July 6, 2009  12:01am

AMEN ,AMEN .AMEN ,CBA YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD.A “UNIFORMED EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM"DESIGNED FOR PROMOTIONAL ADVANCEMENT IN THE DEPT.UNFURTUNATELY OUR CHIEF HAD 6 YEARS SINCE THIS WHOLE THING BEGAN AND STILL HAS DONE NOTHING.OUR TESTING SYSTEM AND NON EXISTENT PROMOTIONAL PROGRAM GO HAND IN HAND.IT HAS BEEN CHALLENGE IN COURT MANY TIMES AND WILL CONTINUE TO GET CHALLENGE UNTIL A PERSON WITH ENOUGH BALLS STANDS UP AND MAKES THE NECESARRY CHANGES,BUT UNTIL THEN SEE YOU IN OUR NEXT COURT CASE.I WOULD BET THE BARN FRANK RICCI WOULD BE THE ONE SUING.HES OUR REPLACEMENT FOR CHERYL BROADNAX IN THE LAWSUIT DEPT.LOL

posted by: Donald Day on July 12, 2009  12:52pm

FRANK RICCI SHOULD STEP DOWN
I have been closely watching the case of Ricci v. DeStefano, the case in which white firefighters clamored that they were being “deprived of their civil rights” when the city of New Haven, CT, threw away two promotional examinations because it allegedly feared a lawsuit by “black guys.” 
I am of the opinion that Frank Ricci should relinquish his firefighter job.  After all, the Supreme Court decided in his own case last week that, before a city can settle any case involving discrimination issues (at least discriminatory hiring and promotion), a person has to show a substantial likelihood that there was discrimination against a particular race or status.  So says the Supreme Court, in a strange and clearly racist decision.
Let’s take the case to its logical conclusion.  Frank Ricci should never have been hired.  The city caved in to a white, dyslexic guy who merely threatened litigation. 
When Mr. Ricci first tried to be hired in New Haven, he didn’t make the grade.  When he wasn’t hired, Mr. Ricci got miffed.  He hired a lawyer, claiming he was discriminated against because he was dyslexic.  His mom wrote a grumpy letter to the local newspaper (which published the letter), saying Ricci had been discriminated against.  Both she and her boy complained that he was already a firefighter for another city.  They claimed that he wasn’t hired because of “politics.”  Oh, yes, he should be hired because he was an “experienced, excellent” fireman, even though he couldn’t pass the criteria for getting hired in New Haven. 
Then his lawyer threatened also to file a reverse discrimination charge, because Ricci has the very luck happenstance of being both white and dyslexic.  He used both statuses to leap around the hiring criteria and force his way into a job. Incidentally, the whole record is available online at the CT district court website. The city caved and settled early on those hiring issue years ago.  Mr. Ricci didn’t prove a thing, he never has.  Poof.  Instant fireman.  His status as a firefighter for New Haven is not based on testing or other criteria that everyone else in his situation had to face.  Rather, it was based on his being a white, dyslexic crybaby. 
Mr. Ricci took someone else’s job.  He didn’t prove he was “qualified” to be a firefighter under his own criteria.  And he doesn’t even live in New Haven.  So in reality, he will always be “Mr. Ricci.”  He never earned the job, but only got it through settlement.  Where’s the proof, Mr. Ricci, where’s the proof?  You should step down.  So says the Supreme Court.
Two things can be gleaned from Mr. Ricci, one is that he fought all the way to the Supreme Court saying that the person that scores the highest on an exam should be promoted irrespective of who they are and two, sometimes a written exam is not the best way to evaluate whether a person is going to be the best fire fighter or the best officer, irrespective of how they score on said exam.  Talk about having your cake and eating it too! 

It seems to me that Mr. Ricci wants special consideration as longs as it benefits, Mr. Ricci and want strict rank order as long as it benefits Mr. Ricci…..