New Haven Independent

posted by: Taxpayer on May 26, 2010  3:49pm

...and we’re gonna pay for it HOW?????

posted by: Vinny G on May 26, 2010  4:10pm

Is there really a need for another school directly next to another Pre K - 8 school (Clemente), which is 3 blocks away from John Daniels (Pre K - 8)?
Vincent Mauro School is not to far away either. This school is not that old. 20 years +/- and is or is slated to be closed.

Are the school’s currently occupied (built)being used to their full potential?

Why burden the tax payer even more.

posted by: anon on May 26, 2010  4:15pm

Much of the work has already been paid for, Taxpayer.  Do you think the architects and engineers designed this for free?

posted by: Doyens on May 26, 2010  5:32pm

If this school is built, the wasteful school rebuilding program will continue. I too would like to know if nearby schools are fully utilized and what projections for school enrollment have been done. Further, there is a lot of wasted space in this design which costs a lot of money both in terms of operation, maintenance and utilities. All that hokus pokus hooey about solidity and lightness - geez people, this is the kind of stuff that has us spending $65 million this year on debt service. How many kids can this school accomodate and where are they coming from?

And finally, Anon - only the design is paid for. The construction is not and that’s the real money.

posted by: tess tickles on May 26, 2010  7:22pm

Does anyone have any data on how many kids each skool is built for, and if each school built to date is maxed out, and if not, why are we building more schools for less kids?  Less schools mean less out of town administration at 100 to 150k per year. Wanna save money? Put a moratorium on school building until the info is assessed, and also answer the question on how much the schools add to the budget. Cut now. Cut the city hall payroll by 15%, instead of raising takes.

posted by: citysavior on May 26, 2010  7:56pm

it’s just amazing how all the schools being built from Columbus ave to the west haven line and no body thought about putting a pool for our kids. theirs one at career but the kids won’t walk there from Howard ave or rosette st. How many kids have to die in the river in order for our elected officials get a clue and help us out???

posted by: anon on May 26, 2010  8:27pm

Citysavior, why won’t the kids walk to the pool from Howard Avenue? It takes a few minutes.

posted by: anon on May 26, 2010  8:35pm

If you think that the construction of this school is expensive, take a look at the long-term bill for operation and maintenance.  Though this is a replacement school and heavily paid for through state funding, the city is still on the hook for many millions in construction-related costs and an enormous annual operating budget. 

Many other cities are closing schools to save money - are we sure we need this many?

posted by: V on May 26, 2010  8:53pm

Just keep spending others’ money. 

Build unnecessary new schools.
Then bus kids all over the city, instead of having them walk to school.

posted by: sjbj on May 26, 2010  9:01pm

Tess, I wish you were right. But, in recent years school enrollment has gone down and number of administrators has gone up. Forget about cutting administrators—-it just isn’t going to happen. They will cut TAG, they will cut the Xmas tree, etc. But school administrators, no way.

Doyens, are you an architect? Maybe they could use your talents on the SBBAC.

posted by: anon on May 26, 2010  9:32pm

V:

Busing, and the school’s impact on the neighborhood more broadly, is an important issue.

Currently, over half of our public school students are overweight and as a result, they are going to see their life expectancies lowered by 20-30 years (on average). Perhaps even more importantly, those same health problems are also going to directly impact their ability to achieve a high level of education and economic success. 

One of the ways to combat this problem is to make schools and neighborhoods better places to walk to and around.

Will this school result in less busing? Or more?

Will the hundreds of millions of dollars used to build this (adding direct costs plus future debt service) help create a healthier population that is able to achieve higher levels of income, education and happiness, and eventually contribute to a stronger New Haven, or will the expenditure only have an impact during the few years that the students are there?  If so, could those hundreds of millions of dollars be put to better use, like making the nearby sidewalks and parks (if there are any worth mentioning) into places where children can learn and play?

What is the environmental impact of the buses that will speed down neighborhood streets from all over New Haven to get here? What about the diesel fumes?

posted by: DKR on May 27, 2010  6:11am

someone please show me another city in any other state that has spent so much money on schools only to have NOTHING to show for it. i bet it’s safe to say only 40% of the kids in the new haven school system actually get an education and move on to be productive members of society. yet johnny boy wants to keep raising taxes cutting city services only to have a new school on every block. how many kids are in new haven anyway….

posted by: Townie on May 27, 2010  11:45am

The only way to stop this construction and new school construction is to cut off the funding, i.e. stop paying property taxes also known as a tax-strike or boycott. The city will shut down and maybe then the Mayor and Council will realize that we are sick of the waste and the mismanagement. Not one more dollar until they leave office and a competent Council takes power. Not one more dollar until the good people of New Haven wrest control from those who want nothing but to perpetuate the welfare system and liberalistic paternalism that has destroyed New Haven.

posted by: Westville Mom on May 27, 2010  2:15pm

I think it’s time for a reality check and some perspective on school construction spending and I hope some people are still reading this thread, because our local politicians are not AT ALL interested in what I have to say.

The largest school construction/renovation program in the history of this country is the Los Angeles school system, which has gotten a whole lot of press.  It has been called the “Big Dig” of school construction.  LA’s is the 2nd largest school system in the country (next to NYC) and has all the same problems as New Haven’s.

Let’s do some arithmetic, kids ....
(perhaps Gary Doyens can check my math)

The total budget (so far) of LA’s program is $19.2 Billion (from their own website.)  Also, according to their website, they have 900,000 students.  When I divide $19.2 Billion by 900,000 students I get $21,333 PER STUDENT.

If you use the $1.5 Billion figure that is reported for New Haven’s school building program and divide that by 20,759 students (from the NHPS website), you get $72,258 PER STUDENT.

So, roughly $21,000/student in the high-profile, highly publicized LA system vs. roughly $72,000/student in the tiny, obscure New Haven system.

I would guess that nowhere has so much been lavishly spent on so few WITH SO LITTLE RESULTS ... and aren’t the “results” the whole point?  And on top of that, there are NO investigative journalists who are willing to really dig beneath the surface here to hold the people authorizing spending decisions accountable.  Commenters on this site are constantly griping about the luxurious schools (and they are luxurious), but no one investigates WHY.  Since most of the money comes from the state, that means that CT taxpayers have a vested interest in this issue.  But I doubt they are being told the truth.  Regrettably however, at this point it is almost too late.

Some links—you can find many others if you google:

http://archrecord.construction.com/schools/0701_CH1_southLA.asp

http://www.laschools.org/bond/

posted by: NHTeacher on May 27, 2010  11:37pm

“Citysavior, why won’t the kids walk to the pool from Howard Avenue? It takes a few minutes.”

Career is located only a few blocks from the heart of the Tre.  Any kid from the Hill who walks to Career runs a very high risk of being jumped or worse.

posted by: Whatsername on May 28, 2010  1:25pm

Currently, the students that were attending Hill Central School are at the Lexington Ave School (grades 3-8) and Prince St School (K-2), in Fair Haven Heights.  Children that live in the Hill have to be bussed there and back every day.  Hopefully, if/when the new Hill Central is built, those children will be able to walk to school instead of having to spend 60+ minutes a day on a bus.

While there are quite a few schools in the Hill area (Truman, John C. Daniels, Roberto, Hill Central, Betsy Ross—but a magnet, not a neighborhood school), Roberto Clemente and Hill Central are real neighborhood schools.  In the past, Hill Central was the elementary school and Roberto was the middle school (which is why they were built so close).  While it doesn’t make much sense, it would be very difficult to pump all the Hill Central kids into existing schools in the neighborhood without compromising the educational experience.

At least Roberto and Hill Central will be able to share resources.

While I know that it’s costly to rebuild Hill Central, I honestly don’t know what would happen to those kids that go there—and if they end up being bussed across town (like they are now), that’s a crappy solution.