New Haven Independent

posted by: visitor on August 11, 2011  8:07pm

aside from the “live feed” will the video for this be available on NHI or any of the other live feed sources <i> after <i> the debate is over? this is important for many people!

[Note: We expect to have the video up later today.]

posted by: average joe on August 11, 2011  8:19pm

I love Graves saying he’ll hire Kerekes as his budget director.

posted by: Newhallville Mom on August 11, 2011  8:34pm

I’m tire of hearing about the ship thats sailing and about crime.  These parents need to be accountable for their children not the Mayor.

Jeffrey is not talking about lowering my taxes, sorry I was thinking about voting for him but i wasn’t impress.

posted by: Westville parent on August 11, 2011  8:58pm

To Westville Mom—sorry you are nervous in Edgewood Park.  I bring my little ones to the Edgewood Park playground, to Ranger’s nature program, RiverKeeper canoe program on the West River at Edgewood, the skate park, the CitySeed farmers market every sunday, The Art Walk in May, and even the “haunted house” halloween weekend.  I’ve never felt anything but proud to live in this neighborhood!!

posted by: robn on August 11, 2011  10:16pm

The Graves-offers-Kerekes-a-job moment was what the film Rocky II might have been if Apollo Creed had not gone on to a rematch with Rocky Balboa, but instead, attempted to hire away his financial advisor.

posted by: cedarhillresident on August 11, 2011  10:27pm

Well Newhallville mom that is your right. Something we are getting to have again because of all of these men! But I have worked with Jeffrey on the budget fight for many years. Taxes are his priority. It is what will bring business back to the city. Keep the working class in there homes. I am one of the struggling women in the city. And that is the reason I am fighting so hard for him. Call him, talk to him. I think he was amazing and people walking out were signing up for him. This is very exciting!
Jeffrey Kerekes was spot on!! I am proud to be a supporter!

posted by: Charlie O'Keefe on August 11, 2011  11:55pm

I found this all very interesting, but completely uninspiring. DeStefano is definitely past it, and really should have had the decency to resign after he failed to make it as Governor. In the private sector it’s up or out, and he’s been in suspended animation for 5 years now as Mayor, pissing all our money away on whatever fantasy enters his head. He really must go.

As to the contenders I’m not impressed with them. Very much the same problem as DeStefano, huge egos with no real ability.

Kerekes had a few sparks but was like a school kid reading from his little cheat sheets. All very easy to plan in advance, but if things turn out different from expected he’s toast. As things always turn out different in New Haven he’s burnt toast already.

Graves seems like a decent human being, but just can’t communicate what he stands for and what he’ll do. I guess as an attorney he gets paid by the word and is used to churning out meaningless drivel for a living. It takes a lot more than that to run a city like New Haven that’s challenging Detroit for being the biggest basket case of all time.

Dawson. Well, what a poor performance. “I’ll be the greatest mayor of all time” was his refrain and his refrain and his refrain. Yeah, right. We all watch TV with commercials 30 minutes in the hour. Say it and say it and say it and they’ll believe it. McDonalds hamburgers are really good for you. We all know that’s true. Just ask Bill Clinton, you know, the former President with the most by-pass surgery. I’m sorry Mr Dawson, but you really were the worst performer. I expect you to continue to the bitter end, and help get DeStefano re-elected by splitting the vote.

Now, Mr Lee. You must have been very, very, very nervous. I know you are a decent person who will try to do the right thing. I don’t think anyone else does as you were totally incoherent. Unless you can pull it together and clearly get across what you will do you should throw the towel in too.

So, for my two cents, in alphabetical order its either Graves or Kerekes. Both of you need to line up heavyweights who can support you as Mayor. We all know DeStefano has really strong players like Brancatti, Fusco, Whinstanley and Matthews behind him. They all have very large and open wallets.

Me. I’m looking to get out of town. Can’t afford the taxes, and can’t stand the stupidity.

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 12, 2011  2:49am

Charlie O’K,

I don’t quite think it is fair to compare a city like Detroit to New Haven.
(despite our twin appearances on recent polls)

Just as a reality check, check out these photos from Detroit….

This is truly Blight.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2011/02/07/captured-the-ruins-of-detroit/2672/

posted by: Chris Gray on August 12, 2011  5:18am

Since an errant finger just sent a half an hour’s work into the toilet trying to use your page, I’ll use my own word processing!

From News Channel…excuse me News 8’s coverage tonight, let me synthesize Kerekes’ opponents’ arguments; ‘Despite the truth of your attack on our historically incompetent police dept. (from the Chief who asked my brother for an army armored personnel carrier to respond to but fail to solve the Yale Whale bombing, to the botched Serra murder prosecutions, to the botched conviction in the murder of Dawson’s predecessor on the Board,  to the failure to even name a suspect in the Jovin murder, or to solving the 20 Kerekes mentioned), who are you, a young, uncorrupted, unconnected non-native (as if being born and raised here is a qualification written into the Charter – but who recalls a New Haven mayor who wasn’t?) to disrespect your honorable, hard-working elders?’

Your spell checker blocked the “secret word” costing me another hour trying to save and post this!!!

posted by: Chris Gray on August 12, 2011  5:48am

Rats, I’m pretty sure that I lost my best line in the process.  So, here it is; I thought we were an immigrant friendly city, now!

posted by: Cookie Monster on August 12, 2011  7:07am

There were too many small and petty questions last night. What I missed from all of the challengers was a true sense of a positive vision for New Haven. It’s easy to criticize an incumbent, but it’s harder to put forward a real, positive plan for New Haven. The closest I’ve seen any candidate come to doing that has been Kerekes, but so many of his ideas are more about process and management style than anything that would really transform New Haven. A rental pool for equipment for city departments, posting checks online, not hiring a campaign volunteer as your chief of staff, or firing a bunch of administrators at the Board of Education is not a vision for a new and positive future. Unless you buy Republican ideology, lowering taxes is not a recipe for job creation or growth of the middle class. Kerekes comes off as more of a libertarian than a Democrat.
What I really like about DeStefano is that even after so many terms in office, he continues to put forward new, progressive ideas for improving the city. None of these candidates have impressed me the way DeStefano has with New Haven Promise, creation of the prison re-entry initiative, School Change and one of the most progressive and reform-minded teachers contracts out there, school construction (I disagree with Lee and Kerekes that students should learn in “raggedy” schools. That would never be acceptable in Trumbull where Kerekes grew up, and it should never be acceptable for New Haven students), the Elm City ID card, the redesign of Route 34… I just don’t see anything anywhere near as progressive or visionary from any of the other candidates out there.

posted by: CMP on August 12, 2011  8:08am

Typing for the second time…thank you NHI website.

The leading “contenders” have absolutely no experience in polictical office.  While I appreciate the discourse, I’m not signing up for “what I would do” statements as they have no worth or value without experience.

Could you imagine the leading contenders fighting for our City on the State or Federal level?  I cannot. 

The conversations are important. Electing a mayor to work within the heavy politicized City, State & Federal environments matter greatly. 

Being an activist is an important role in the community but it does not, alone, translate to a successful political leader.

posted by: robn on August 12, 2011  9:02am

Experience

Suppose you had to choose between two Presidential candidates, one of whom had spent 20 years in Congress plus had considerable other relevant experience and the other of whom had about half a dozen years in the Illinois state legislature and 2 years in Congress. Which one do you think would make a better President? If you chose #1, congratulations, you picked James Buchanan over Abraham Lincoln. Your pick disagrees with that of most historians, who see Lincoln as the greatest President ever and Buchanan as the second worst ever, better only than Warren “Teapot Dome” Harding. Both served in what was probably the most difficult period in American history, where slavery and secession tore the nation asunder.

http://electoral-vote.com/evp2010/Info/experience.html

posted by: streever on August 12, 2011  9:08am

Cookie Monster
What I really don’t like about DeStefano is that so many of those grandiose visions fail to be realized because he ignores process and is a terrible manager.

After 18 years, maybe it is time to give someone else a shot? Lets elect someone with the management skills and acumen for making tough decisions. I’m sure Kerekes can find plenty of policy wonks to help him with pie in the sky visions.

posted by: Wilbur Cross student issues on August 12, 2011  9:09am

I’m confused.  The mayor praised the Wilbur Cross principal and the superintendent for “reaching out to” and “encouraging” the students involved in the peaceful demonstration earlier in the year?  What is he talking about?  No one reached out to the students, except to threaten them for doing what they did.  And note that not only was it a peaceful demonstration, but it was done after school and off school grounds.

Also, what is his view of the principal’s nullification of the student council election because she doesn’t like the student who was elected president of the council?

Mayor Destefano, you insult the intelligence of students and adults alike.  The principal is one of your campaign’s supporters, and that is most surely her right to be, but did your loyalty to her overshadow your duty to the students?

posted by: brutus2011 on August 12, 2011  9:50am

The mayor’s defense of the Wilbur Cross student incident(s) and the Columbus take-over by a private company is irrefutable evidence of where he stands. If one agrees with the mayor,so be it. If one does not agree, then one needs to seriously consider if a change is needed.

I was astonished to hear the mayor say that what happened with the Cross student elections was positive and appropriate.

I was also amazed that the mayor thinks that we should be willing to try anything to educate our kids properly as a defense of Domus and Renaissance private charters. Why not try our teachers-or a teacher led school? Or, why not shift some highly paid central office administrators and staff to Columbus?

The mayor may need to be replaced, if only to replace his appointed education managers. Clearly the failure of Columbus, and other schools, is accountable at the top.

posted by: Noteworthy on August 12, 2011  9:56am

Cookie Monster:

Process and management style are critically important to governing well. It is what lets you hear what others say, their critiques as well s their praise. More importantly, those skills also are the very foundations of actually delivering on all those grandiose visions a mayor can have.

Financial solvency keeps you from scrambling for money all the time like a pauper. Union contracts grounded in good management practices keeps you from having to privatize them because you can’t follow the labor laws. Process and management also keep you from having to pay $6 to $12 million in settlements to firefighters for discriminating against them. Good management practices means you don’t discriminate and so on.

If you have big ideas and fail to deliver, or what you deliver is lame at best, what good is it? Process matters. Management style matters as we painfully, through our high taxes know all too well.

posted by: Steven C on August 12, 2011  10:02am

THE MAYOR claimed he had a budget surplus every year since 2002. He did NOT tell us that our taxes had been DOUBLED to accomplishes this great feat! This is the problem the arrogant Mr Mayor has always had - he thinks he is smarter than the rest of us. Poor and middle class citizens of New Haven pay for his posse of cronies, his downtown while the surrounds crumble and his new suits! Time to write the lyrics to BYE BYE JOHNNIE!

posted by: streever on August 12, 2011  10:04am

CMP:
Funny, I imagine if someone like Kerekes was Mayor, we’d have less fighting at the state level. We have incredible State Representatives who do this already. I know the Mayor really enjoys policy and state-level legislation, but I think his focus on that is to the detriment of our city.

He needs to focus on the problems here. How many unsolved homicides this year?

posted by: grad student on August 12, 2011  10:06am

@streever - what has kerekes managed? when was the last union contract he negotiated? and exactly what new policy did he offer?

all i heard from him was that this sucks in new haven, and that sucks in new haven. he was so negative and always attacking.  he is just a tea party republican running as a democrat in the primary.  Guess thats why its easy for him to flip to being an independent and run again in the general election free from the party platform.

To NHI: didnt appreciate the visual of ... under 40, female reporters asking the majority of questions to older all male candidates.

posted by: Noteworthy on August 12, 2011  10:24am

As a long time debater and as one who gives speeches and presentations about 200 times per year, I will tell you it is critical to be well prepared. And it shows that Jeffrey spent time studying, preparing and thinking about this debate.

Shooting from the hip may look folksy and knowledgeable but it is easy to be inaccurate, and unfocused and off message.

Like this whopper from DeStefano: I’ve lowered the Tweed subsidy to $400,000 a year.” He understated the subsidy by 30% and that doesn’t include the bonded funds which we are on the hook for.

So, notes are good. Prepared statements are used from the President to the governor to DeStefano’s coronation events where he fantasizes about New Haven being a “shining city on a hill.”

And by the way, they work just fine in union negotiations too.

posted by: Graves Wins on August 12, 2011  10:39am

Gotta say that sound was a disaster in the room, not just Graves, but everybody (except Lee, who didn’t really have much to say anyway). Looks to me that among the challengers Graves has the most well-thought out positions. And he shows great compassion for the victims and workers who live in New Haven.
http://cliftongravesmayor.com/

posted by: Drosophila on the Wall on August 12, 2011  10:43am

Streever,
... The mayor is not personally responsible for micromanaging the city—he (or she! Where are the female candidates for mayor, people?) is responsible for putting together a team of professionals who can get the job done right.  “The job,” however, is pursuing the Mayor’s vision.

As far as I can tell, Kerekes’ vision is to have a smoothly run city.  Ain’t gonna happen.  We could do a heck of a lot better, and he has some decent ideas—in fact, I think he might make a GREAT budget director.  He does not have any ideas for fixing the HUGE problems that our city faces, however, and that is the number 1 priority of the Mayor.  Nobody wants a Mayor who is going to hire professional visionaries for the city—it is the vision itself that we want to vote on in the first place!

posted by: yz on August 12, 2011  12:27pm

Where has government vision gotten us? It was the vision of planners like Robert Moses that created the massive road building that enabled wealth to flow out of New Haven. It was some grand vision of the future that destroyed neighborhoods and historic buildings in the name of urban renewal. It was DeStefano’s vision that built a slew of new school buildings, yet brought only minimal improvements in educational quality.

Things are not any different this time around. I’m not impressed by grandiose pictures of the future because I don’t think government solutions are the best solutions. Certainly the mayor has improved New Haven. School reforms like teacher accountability and new management at failed schools should lead to gradual improvements. But the mayor has become too used to spending taxpayer money without restraint. New Haven residents pay high property taxes, but is government in New Haven any better than government in the surrounding suburbs?

Many city employees live outside the city because they can pay less taxes, avoid crime, and send their children to good public schools. On solving the first two issues, the mayor has failed. Yes crime is lower now than in the early 90s, but how much of that is merely because of a national trend? Crime levels are still intolerably high. Lowering taxes will indeed invite the middle class back to the city, because the middle class we all want in this city owns homes and pays city property taxes. We have yet to see how the mayor’s latest efforts in school reform will pan out. I don’t want a mayor with grand visions that involve spending large amounts of taxpayer money. It hasn’t gotten us very far.

posted by: Westville Mom on August 12, 2011  12:27pm

To Westville Parent:  That comment about the park was in response to a discussion about New Haven being unquestionably better now than it was 18 years ago.  Having been here for going on 30, my opinion (and it IS my opinion) is that in some ways it is and in some ways it is not.  20+ years ago I walked ALONE with my kids to the playground and duck pond.  You are smart to attend events and go in groups.  I reiterate that I would not now go alone and frankly, I don’t see a lot of people alone in the park these days.  They are being cautious and with good reason.

As for a larger response to the issue of “are we better off now?” … here are some points with respect to an overall “vision” of the city:

I used to purchase almost all my clothing and other household goods in New Haven (around 25 yrs. ago.)  We had Macy’s and Malley’s and the Chapel Sq. Mall.  I now go to Orange/Milford and also Westfarms and Danbury Mall.  I can’t afford the pricey boutiques in New Haven – nor do they offer what I want and/or need.

I used to walk to some regular stores.  Westville Village had the wonderful old hardware store, there were drugstores and small markets you could walk to, and the antiques stores were there.  Now the antiques stores are upscale, the boutiques are expensive, and there are more restaurants.  The additional restaurants are a good thing, but I still miss the others.

There used to be a lot of events in the city … not just the Coliseum events, but also many ethnic festivals and street fair-type things.  Not so much anymore.  Remember the long lines of cars backed up on the Connector waiting to get into the city?  I’m not knocking the Festival of Arts & Ideas, but it’s not a true festival in the commonly used sense.  Many of its attractions require tickets and many, although certainly not all, are geared to intellectual elites.  It’s like a “politically correct” festival for Yale.  Many, many of us enjoyed the ethnic festivals we used to have.  Where have they gone?

So, to sum up, what I see is that over the years there has been an inexorable trend toward GENTRIFICATION of New Haven.  It’s happened right under your noses, people, and you haven’t even noticed.

My criticism of this administration is that it has thumbed its nose at the Middle Class, middle class standards, middle class values, middle class objectives, and middle class principles.  In so doing, it has driven the middle class out of the city and destroyed any chance (for the moment) of it moving back in.

I did not hear a single word last night (although I must admit to having streaming problems) that addressed anything remotely related to what I have just asserted.  And it is unquestionably the middle class that is necessary to generate business and jobs in this town.  There are ways to bring them back, but to mention the most obvious one seems to be like saying a dirty word … and the phrase is “neighborhood schools.”

When local election day comes, I might just have to write in “Herman Cain.”

posted by: anon on August 12, 2011  12:42pm

Graves’s vow to cut 10 percent from salaries of people earning more than $100,000, and Kerekes’s “Come Home” program, were two of the highlights in terms of concrete policy changes that would make a difference in our city. 

Most of the candidates’ other statements were baseless ideas about crime reduction (things that sound good but won’t work) and empty platitudes about promoting academic achievement.

posted by: ralph ferrucci on August 12, 2011  1:34pm

ASL, is New Haven really safer now than it was 18 years ago?

20 years ago gangs were rampant in New Haven, people were scared to go out of their houses, there was a shoot out inside the Chapel Square Mall.

Federal agencies came into New Haven (the Mayor had nothing to do with this) and busted gangs. they found $2 million in the hull of a ship in the New Haven harbor.

Most of those people who were busted got 15 to 20 years in jail. They are out or are getting out and now crime is on the rise again.

The poor economy is not helping either. If we do not attack crime more aggressively than it is going to get a lot worse and maybe as bad if not worse than it was 20 years ago.

I went to Eli Whitney Tech. in Hamden and almost got shot due to gang retaliation because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The Mayor did not stop the crime that was on the rise when he took office and I do not think he can now.

Hell, the last 10 years he has been talking about attacking crime and it has gotten worse, whatever he is doing is not working.

posted by: Cedarhillresident on August 12, 2011  1:54pm

funny thing Anon…if I remember correctly (only because I was part of it) Kerekes and team suggested the 10% cut first, in fact here is the petition they did…

http://www.petitiononline.com/NewHaven/petition.html

they got 800 sigs on line and another 500 hand signatures.

just saying

posted by: Experience Counts on August 12, 2011  4:01pm

@CedarhillResident

Looking at your petition, it calls for a 10% cut in all agency budgets. I don’t see where you equate that with Graves’ call for a 10% cut in executive level salaries (=$100K). Seems like Team Kerekes is in a “me first” frame of mind on every thought that comes up. I would be more inclined to give Jeffrey serious consideration if he had any semblance of real world management or administrative experience. It takes more to run a city than just being a gadfly. Experience does count for something.

posted by: click click on August 12, 2011  9:47pm

ANYONE BUT DeStefano!

Seriously, we need to build our city back up instead of DeStefano’s catastrophic damage he’s done to the city in the past 20 years, like:

1. Loosing our only concert venue in the area and big tax bucks

2. Loosing semi-pro sports teams; Hockey and baseball, ie- more revenue and tax base

3. Shooting down the MegaMall at LongWharf which would have created a monster tax base, jobs, and higher revenues to area restaurants, etc.

4. DeStefanos numerous lawsuits worth millions and millions from the PD, FD, and other City workers for his bad decisions, ie - NHFD20, NHPD Arp Tolnay and the minister, PD Illegal Promotions with the Kellys, etc. All cost the tax payers over $10,000,000.00

5. His decision to layoff 16 cops (which cost $50,000 each to train), only to say he wants a government grant (our taxes) to hire 22 more cops?! A political bargaining move that cost our city protection and $$750,000.00

6. Being the mayor when one of the biggest coruption scandles rocked the PD, and the main guy was his boy who he placed in charge

FOLKS, he’s got to go!

ANYONE BUT JOHN!!!!!!

posted by: Noteworthy on August 12, 2011  10:02pm

Experience does not equal expertise. One need only look at the current mayor to see that. DeStefano has given gifts to the unions for years to buy their allegiance and votes and endorsements. The sweetest of them included the police contract he currently deplores, including the sweetner that pays former assist chief Redding more in retirement than she ever made actually working. The pension fund is underfunded by half and the legal budget is as well. We have debt up to our eyeballs and morale is low across city departments.

Experience does not equal expertise. And by the way, DeStefano was 36 when he became mayor. Kerekes is 38.  I’ll take Kerekes’ real world experience, his attention to detail and his frugality over being broke, hungry and unsafe with a house full of uneducated kids.

By the way, half the battle is employing the right people - 6 police chiefs in just 19 years. Something is not right. Together with the other problems, that’s some experience mod you are trumpeting.

posted by: Brian on August 12, 2011  10:24pm

That poster of Lee is so awkward looking. He also looked so mad in the debate, the man needs to legitimately smile.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on August 12, 2011  10:42pm

U.S. Steel Works closes and lays off 400 New Haveners. November 1979.
http://tinyurl.com/3en4pcs

7 year old girl is raped and murdered. August 1980.
http://tinyurl.com/3o775q5

Olin Corporation sells its stock in Winchester Repeating Arms in August 1981. Massive lay offs follow over the next two and a half decades until the plant finally closes all operations in 2006.
http://tinyurl.com/3egkqm8

“3 Youths Shot As Gangs Clash At Courthouse”
December 13, 1989
http://tinyurl.com/3rqmuu3

Police arrest 15 gang members. April 1990.
http://tinyurl.com/3e8hla4

“Armed youths turn New Haven into battleground”
May 26, 1991
http://tinyurl.com/3wfhjnx

“Three killed in New Haven during Sickout by Police”
September 23, 1991
http://tinyurl.com/3w8kl6j

“6-Year-Old in New Haven Shot in the Head on a Bus”
June 11, 1992
http://tinyurl.com/3cd7lto

In October 1992, three Latin Kings were shot execution style in Criscuolo Park by another gang member for attempting to leave the gang.

A 5 year old was caught in the crossfire of two rival gangs and was shot - also in 1992.

In January 1993, three high school students were killed in seperate incidents two weeks apart.

“Student Is Shot at a High School in New Haven”
November 10, 1994
http://tinyurl.com/3zj4ty3

“The Battle of the Drug Trade in Fair Haven”
February 4, 1996
http://tinyurl.com/3s42pon

Between 1989 and 1991 there were 1,063 shootings in New Haven. That averages out to 354.3 per year - more than one a day. In addition to those non-fatal shootings, there were 99 homicides during that same time period.

People shot in New Haven in 2005 (excluding homicides): 132
2006: 117
2007: 140
2008: 137
2009: 121
2010: 124

Homicides in 2005: 15
2006: 24
2007: 13
2008: 23
2009: 13
2010: 24

Homicides so far in 2011: 21
Shootings: around 70-75

Overall violent crime has dropped consecutively for the last 3 years at least (maybe more if we have more accurate population demographics for the mid 2000s). The overarching trend is that violent crime has been dropping since 1990, with a lull between 1998-2003 followed by a slight uptick in incidents in the mid 2000s.
With that said, I agree with “yz” that crime is still far too high. The response to addressing this crime problem has to be well-calculated, long lasting, and all-encompassing. It has to deal with prison re-entry, drug demand, drug supply, gun demand, gun supply, and most importantly job access for at-risk offenders and this all has to be done within a smaller budget then is currently allocated to the police department. I know one things for sure, I wouldn’t want the job of having to figure out how to do that.

posted by: Chris Gray on August 12, 2011  10:49pm

First up, I wrote on Jeffery Kerekes Wall on Facebook, “I just received a phone call from Skylar Pierce of Mountain West Research! A DeStefano push poll which listed all the policies you have espoused with which I might disagree. Probably did it for any candidate a voter supports.“ In a phone call with him I confirmed that it got a bit hysterically histrionic.

Ralph, I can take it further back to say 1979 (not my first brush with New Haven street violence) when at the corner of George and Day, a street on which I had lived, six young men, two on each arm and one on each leg, took me down in the gutter and robbed me of an elk antler pipe and a folding knife with an antler handle.  They didn’t hurt me.  I called the police soon and, promising WYBC publicity – where I volunteered as Public Affairs Director – if the pin ball parlor on George in which they had gotten shelter wasn’t shut down.  It was, the very next day in a pot sales bust.
 
Armament and targeting have changed.  Guns replaced hands and those six kids would be shooting at each other.

posted by: Cookie Monster on August 13, 2011  8:06am

@ Streever and Noteworthy: 
DeStefano has failed to deliver on his positive vision for the city? Tell that to the 100+ kids who received Promise scholarships this year, or the thousands of kids who have received jobs each summer from Youth@Work (and yes, all kids were from New Haven this year), or the men who received jobs and housing thanks to the Re-Entry Initiative, or the students learning in modern science labs (“raggedy” buildings would never be tolerated in Trumbull where Jeff grew up and should never be acceptable here), or the New Haven men and women who have good jobs on construction worksites throughout the city thanks in part to the city’s commission on equal opportunities, school construction, and an unprecedented building and development boom. You may believe that Kerekes, or Graves, or Dawson, or Lee would do a better job, that’s your choice, but to ignore the good work that has been done over the years does a disservice to your campaigns and is an insult to the people who work hard every day to make the city a better place.

posted by: robn on August 13, 2011  9:34am

Heres a reasonable question…in the past 4 years how many times have these candidates been at significant public meetings and how many of those times have they spoken on public record about important city issues?

posted by: Westville Mom on August 13, 2011  12:25pm

Jonathan, I have very high regard for your research skills and knowledge of New Haven history.  I trust that the statistics you provide are well documented.  While reading them today a lightbulb went off in my head … an “aha” moment.  Up to this point I had been assuming that middle class people were not moving back to New Haven in droves because of crime/schools equally.  I have actually always believed that crime and schools were equally to blame.  Your statistics prove otherwise, and now that I realize that, a lot of things make sense.  So basically, even though over the long term (decades) crime has been falling (perception might be a factor, though), middle class people have still abandoned the city in large numbers and have declined to move in (for instance, when families come here for Yale.)  That leaves SCHOOLS as the major culprit and you have basically proven it.

Bar and restaurant hoppers still make the trek in every week regardless of the crime headlines.  They don’t seem particularly deterred.  But when they begin to have children, where do they buy?  Those politicians who continually make this into a racial thing are seriously deluded … and using fear and name-calling as a political hatchet.

For most middle class people (of any race) the largest investment of their lives is their home.  Since the forced lottery has come into being, they have been asked to put their lives’ savings down on a property that turns their children into pop-up balls in an air-popper lottery machine.  You win some, you lose some.  Who is willing to bet their lives’ savings and the welfare of their children on that?  Almost NO ONE.  That’s why, apart from its proximity to Yale, East Rock has been a consistent draw for new buyers.  I do believe their crime rate (for things like muggings and burglary) is higher than sleepy little Westville but they have a neighborhood school, whereas Westville does not.  (Unless you happen to move in at the precise time of your child entering Kindergarten, which is an alarmingly stupid argument – alarming in what it indicates about the intellect of the politicians who spew it – as if no one has a child/children older than 5 when moving into a neighborhood!)

Homebuyers are investors and investors want CERTAINTY and PREDICABILITY.  What I want to hear from a future mayor (because this one won’t say it, that’s for sure) is that he or she will make a Compact with the citizens of New Haven to permanently guarantee a neighborhood school for every district.  NOTE:  This is NOT a call to abolish the lottery, but rather to amend it to include a neighborhood “option.”  Every parent could choose (a real choice, not a fake one) their own neighborhood school OR the lottery to opt for another one.  It would take a couple of years to sort out the logistics.  For example, if one school ended up with too few children, the extra teachers could be moved to a more popular school where large classes could be divided into two sections until further adjustments could be made.  This not rocket science – I am calling for an end to failed social engineering and an enhancement of citizens’ rights – and in the process, more respect for the intelligence of the people of New Haven, most of whom know that black middle class people are moving out, too.

What continues to amaze me is that the so-called “elite” legal minds at the Yale Law School have somehow failed to notice that when government forces you to gamble with your child’s education (and what exactly is a lottery, if not gambling?) it is eerily similar to forcing you to purchase health insurance – a gross overreaching of government power, an infringement of civil rights, and a frightening foreshadowing of authoritarianism.

posted by: cedarhillresident on August 13, 2011  9:58pm

@robn
Well I can say for years Jeffrey has time and time and time again! Never really saw the others. Well lee and dawson were alders so that does count. but not in resent times.

posted by: bill Saunders on August 14, 2011  4:43am

Westville Mom,

It is easier than reading Jonathan Hopkins’ posts to understand the realities of New Haven flight.

I know very many young people that have been long time New Haven denizens/citizens.  Almost invariably, upon marriage, starter homes are purchased elsewhere, usually in Hamden and North Haven.  Heck, it’s cheaper than renting or owning in our fair city.

Q: Are there affordable single family starter homes in New Haven?

A: Very few, (if any).

Understand, not everybody wants to be a live-in, multi-family landlord to make ends meet.

Just watch, over the next couple years, the housing market will continue to drop.  (Just like in the early nineties.) If you own a home, you will be trapped here (unless you are committed to the long haul), or you will decide to take a significant financial loss in order to escape.

If you are lucky enough to be thinking about purchasing a new home in this market, my best advice is to add up the tax burden, review the school test scores,  examine the corner bullet-count, and look elsewhere.

Or patiently wait for some Great Foreclosures in the not to distant future…

posted by: Westville Mom on August 14, 2011  12:10pm

Bill, you’re right, of course, but I just have to add that Hamden taxes are not that much lower and as for price—I know several families who maxed out every last penny they could in their two-income earnings to buy a tiny overpriced house in Guilford or Branford or North Haven ... for the SCHOOLS!  It’s always the schools.

They are not going TO a good school, they are fleeing FROM a forced lottery.

You and I know from experience and hundreds of acquaintances that New Haven is losing its best and brightest because of a Politburo-esque forced lottery system.  Many of these are good, card-carrying liberals who would love to stay in this liberal town but can’t.  (Funny how they become so much more “traditional” when it comes to their children, isn’t it?)

So this election presents itself as possibly the first time since Mayor DeStefano was first elected to go back to some semblance of a normal school system and take that most important initial step in a long journey to turn New Haven into a middle-class city.  Is there even a candidate willing to discuss this?  It appears not.  The Leftist stranglehold on this city will undoubtedly go on and “nickel and dime” us all to death with their tax, fee, and meter gimmicks.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on August 14, 2011  12:46pm

Westville Mom,
The perception of crime is definitely a major factor for choosing where to live. The sensationalism in the Register and in the evening news when it comes to crime has a lot to do with people’s perceptions that crime is rising or that New Haven is unsafe and they offer no analysis nor retrospect.
Schools are another big factor, but like crime, some of the issues with schools are real (I think you’ve pointed out a big long term problem with the schools) and some are based on false assumptions and perceptions. I think the Magnet system works at the High School level, but it is really unnecessary at the middle school and especially the elementary school level. We spend a fortune on a private yellow busing system that takes kids from all different neighborhoods and brings them across the city. Kids are picked up from one neighborhood then bused to different schools (on different buses) in other neighborhoods, and kids that those other neighborhoods are then bused again to different areas of the city. It’s the most impressively moronic activity that I can imagine. It’s really just astounding to sit back for a second and think about how incredibly inefficient just the busing system is and then to think about how underutilized the existing city bus system really is.
However, we have to remember that this system is a way to address the segregation in schools that existed when they were neighborhood-based. Simply switching back to neighborhood schools tomorrow (or over a 2 year period, which is definitely logistically possible) would probably violate school integration laws. In order for neighborhood schools to reemerge, neighborhoods would have to demonstrate that they contain a reasonable cross-section of the entire city population both ethnically and economically. I think the focus that we have on school reform should be redirected to neighborhood reform where efforts are made to attract investment in under-served neighborhoods and provide the needs for the existing populations. Because honestly, the schools aren’t the problem. In the overwhelming majority of cases, I don’t believe that teachers are born bad, I think that they become ineffective after years of being tormented by punk kids. The idea that we should address this by hiring more social workers, and making teachers stay longer hours for training is wasteful and indirect. The largest impact we can have to ineffective teachers is through the homes and neighborhoods that kids come from and help ensure that kids are adequately attended to in their home environment.
The home mortgage and loan industry is another large problem that has had an enormous impact on city neighborhoods and continues to influence investment to this day.
Taxes in relation to the quality of infrastructure and services are another issue.
Getting truthful and accurate information out to the public is probably the most important way that a lot of the perceptions that people have can be aligned with reality. Changing perceptions would increase investment, which would then have real results on the actual problems of crime, schooling, shopping options, job creation, etc. Without addressing people’s perceptions, no matter how much good is going on, it always get drowned out by sensationalism.

posted by: Westville Mom on August 14, 2011  2:53pm

Jonathan, I hope you read the part where I said the lottery should be kept as an option for everyone.  I don’t see how any district could be accused of segregation when EVERYONE would have free choice to either go into the lottery or stay put.  The operative word here is “choice.” 

The system now in place is neither fair nor equal, when some have a guaranteed spot and others have only the Lottery.  The inequality is blatantly obvious and it is only the silence of the complacent Hooker district that maintains its inequality.  (Because we all know that if they—and Yale—ever complained loudly enough, something would change.  They don’t want to upset their “neighborhood school” applecart.)

If you want to peruse some scholarly papers on the relationship between school choice and home buying, there are quite a few links on the realtor website below.  These are actual academic papers and journals, not news articles.
 
Field Guide to Schools And The Home Buying Decision
http://www.realtor.org/library/library/fg307

As for your point about the schools being “segregated” before the lottery—I know for a fact (because I had a kid there) that Edgewood School was almost all black BEFORE it was “magnetized.”  The white kids were either in West Hills Magnet, or went parochial or private.  West Hills (as I’m sure you know) was artificially—through a (now defunct) corrupt and dishonest “lottery” system—balanced in race as well as socio-economic class and was held up as some sort of an ideal “model” for what the schools should be.  There is only one little problem with this ... there aren’t enough white kids in the entire system to achieve this “balance” in all the schools.  So why don’t we all stop obsessing about the color of people’s skin for a change and work on things that really matter?  Treating our littlest citizens like human beings and not Lotto balls would be a good start toward regaining the trust of potential homeowners.

Also, wouldn’t this would be a good point for mayoral candidates to weigh in? ... if they’re even paying any attention to this thread, that is.

posted by: A.F. on August 14, 2011  9:57pm

“DeStefano’s Record Stinks In The Nostrils of God”

“New Haven Is The 4th Most Violent City In America”

“In 18 Years 318 Murders Under The Watch of DeStefano”

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 14, 2011  11:29pm

A.F.:

That’s only 17.66 murders per year on average.

At this years pace, John is shooting for 38 dead guys—a staggering number that brings our level of unmitigated violence back to the halcyon days of the early nineties,  before the Mayor solved all of our violent crime problems by eliminating community policing.

If I hear him blame the cycle of violence on recent parolees from that bygone gangsta era, I think I am going to ...

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on August 15, 2011  2:35pm

Bill Saunders,
Violent crime is a fraction of what it was in the late 80s and early 90s. Murders alone, are a fairly meaningless statistic to use when determining the atmosphere of violence in the city. Looking at all shootings is a bit more accurate and in so doing, we see that the number of shootings in New Haven is about 2 to 3 times lower than it was in the late 80s and early 90s. I also doubt that we’re going to reach more than 34 homicides (the most in New Haven’s history), but it’s certainly possible.
I don’t think its appropriate to put homicides on Destefano’s shoulders. The city government has marginal influence on what happens in the city - there are much larger economic and social forces at work that impact behavior and decisions that are out of the control of the Mayor.
Several factors were important to lowering the crime rate in the early 90s. Part of it was community policing, although by the time the sub stations were completed (94-95) the crime rate had already shown a clear decrease in severity. Mostly it was due to the Federal, State and municipal police raids on New Haven’s major gangs that occurred in the early 90s and managed to sever drug connections, and imprison the gangs’ leadership. In addition to these calculated raids, we also saw the general prison population massively increase with non-violent offenders. While this did help lower violent crime a little, it also provided us with an enormous population of undereducated, unskilled and basically unemployable males that will be caught in a cycle of poverty and imprisonment for the remainder of their lives.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/US_States_by_Incarceration_Rate.svg/800px-US_States_by_Incarceration_Rate.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png/800px-U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png
Another major factor in lowering the crime rate was the arrival of cheap mortgage loans for low-income households that became available in the 90s. Many families from New Haven’s inner city moved to neighboring towns like West Haven, Hamden and Ansonia. This helped to lower New Haven’s crime rate, slightly raise neighboring towns crime rates and also prevent many crimes by simply moving young children out of an environment that most likely would have turned them into criminals.
The slight uptick in crime that we saw in the mid 2000s can largely be attributed to the formation or reformation of several small gangs throughout the city such as R2, Tre Duce, the Ville, 2-5, and some Crip and Blood sets. Fortunately, these gangs don’t have the regional wholesale drug connections that previous larger gangs had with New York, California, and Providence, which means that they are not handling as much cash and therefore weaponry as previous gangs and the community is not crumbling around them with drug addiction like what happened in the late 80s. The internal beefs and resulting violence with these gangs also have a smaller impact on the community than the more blatant and brazen gangs of the 90s had.
The increase in New Haven’s population between 2000 and 2010 has also translated into a bit more crime, but it has also lead to investment in small businesses and shops.

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 15, 2011  5:56pm

JH,

I am not going to argue with you about the inter-connected maze of interdependent social factors that blossom into the realities kids killing kids 100 yards from my home. 

Regardless of your view of murder as a poor metric, I will stand by my statement and comparison.  It is a valid conclusion based on the limited information presented, and proffered as such to punctiliously punch home a point.

If ‘shootings’ are the better metric, as a countering contrapuntist, I will argue that ‘shootings’ do not fit into my postulated category of ‘unmitigated violence’, therefore, cannot change the outcome of my conclusion.  If you have ever listened to John’s position on phenomena, it was just kid’s playing tag, anyway.

If you feel the Mayor shouldn’t be held accountable for his city’s murder rate, maybe that is why he doesn’t take responsibility.

One thing I am positive of though, Words aren’t going to fix the problem—if you put down your encyclopedia, I will put down my thesaurus.

posted by: Thank You Bill on August 15, 2011  7:40pm

Nice job Bill Saunders.  JH has been put in his place.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on August 16, 2011  1:24pm

Thank you Bill,
Great Contribution to the discussion. Thumbs up!

BS,
It’s not the Mayor’s city. Cities are run by millions of individual decisions that are made on a daily basis by residents, visitors, business owners, store proprietors and employers. It is deeply immoral to try to put 21 bodies on someone else. That type of weight doesn’t belong on Destefano’s shoulders. Besides, I think that type of monstrous accusation that you and others have made only serves to distract from real issues that the Mayor does influence. Instead of trying to appease people like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zja3pcPMszc
who simply yell the loudest and have the most alarmist, doomsday things to say, we should elevate the discussion to be about implementable ideas and accurate descriptions of the problem. This can’t happen without mentioning the police union contract, the relatively large size of our police force, the factors that cause crime and cultures of crime, and the problem of prisoner re-entry.
This is why the format for the debate was so bad, because it encouraged the type of meaningless “Things are worse than ever!” statements rather than allowing candidates to talk about actual issues, and what policies can be implemented to begin a shift towards more promising outcomes for the city. The debates should be focused around policy implementation, not on wishful thinking about police walking more beats tomorrow.

For the record, I know for a fact that some shootings in this city are best described as “tag” - you shoot me, I’ll shoot you. That probably cannot accurately describe the majority of cases, but it exists.

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 16, 2011  3:11pm

Jonathan,

In the absence of an actual plan that puts officers on the streets in these known hotbeds of criminal activity, the body count nexus is not immoral.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on August 16, 2011  6:47pm

In 1980, there were 491 sworn officers - 71 more than we have today - yet there were still 10-20 homicides a year. How many officers do we have to hire in order to stop homicides? 100? 200? How high do we raise taxes?
Even during the height of Pastore’s community policing there were between a dozen and two dozen homicides a year.
The police are a very poor crime fighting agent because they are actually not designed for that function. They serve an important purpose, but the funding capabilities of this city will never come close to being able to hire enough officers to put a sizable dent in the crime rate. Crime mitigation has to come from other places like a renewed focus on neighborhoods as economic and social drivers in the city. Active and surveyed sidewalks, economic opportunity and job access for all people, and a strong sense of community are the best deterrents to crime. City hall has marginal effects on each of those things. The best it can do is reform the zoning ordinance to mandate proper urban design, incentivize certain types of development in strategic locations, and wish for the best.

posted by: Chris Gray on August 16, 2011  9:02pm

JH

In your last post you showed that you could use white space.  Please use more of it, such as between paragraphs, silly!

posted by: brutus2011 on August 16, 2011  10:40pm

I must point out that decisions made in City Hall can have a positive effect. Let’s take our schools for example.

What if the mayor were to decide to lessen his reliance on his education managers and put more resources into those closest to the kids-the teachers and the paraprofessionals.

What if the mayor were to back a program where community members could receive training at Gateway CC, or SCSU, to become paraprofessionals to serve in NHPS classrooms?

What if the mayor were to emphasize the hiring of community memebers who were already qualified to teach New Haven students?

There is a lot a mayor can do to overcome economic inertia in our community. Imagine, if you will, that State Rep. Holder-Winfield were Mayor Holder-Winfield? Can you visualize how energizing his presence in City Hall would be to those of us who lead limited lives?