New Haven Independent

posted by: New Haven Resident on July 8, 2010  9:20am

It’s sad that any and all comments posted here on this (message board) probably won’t get read by the polical parties that is supposed to make a difference.  After reading Sandra"s story who can and who does she turn to for help?  This is a person/parent who has attempted to come forward with a known deadly matter and was told .... your son must call in the complaint. Just wondering what is the difference between what this parent is voicing and if a neighbor saw someone breaking into a nearby home?  Would they not come and investigate?  And NH wonders why no one comes forth w/info when there’s a shooting.  Why do they cry for the public help after the fact.  This mother is crying out for help before the fact.  According to the article the powers to be know of this troubled area and if they refuse to take appropriate action before there’s a crime, shame on them and don’t look for the publics help afterwards.  Do your job

posted by: Sunday on July 8, 2010  9:23am

There should be a limit on how many corner stores are allowed in a residental neighborhood. These stores are no good for stablizing the community and only create violence and lotering. What are these stores selling? I’m sure it’s not just cookies and milk.  The city should set a limit on how many can open up. These people don’t care about the neighborhoods that own these stores, they live some place else. It’s only about making money for them at any cost. I suggest that every one should band together to take back their streets.

posted by: New Haven Resident on July 8, 2010  9:55am

One comment .... I agree w/Sunday.  I live in the area of Dixwell & Bassett. Visels Pharmacy is probably one of the only neighborhood stores that don’t tolerate people hanging out in front of it’s doors.  People"s Choice was a good store/deli to shop under the old management but recently new people took over and now i am witnessing a different group of people starting to congregate around this business.  I have gotten to know the new owners and they appear to be descent people trying to survive a tough neighborhood.  I think these store owner don’t have a choice… These potential trouble makers set up shop and it becomes hard for the store owners to take and keep control.  You can forget about the store across from Visels.  The police must KNOW there’s something going on there.  Always 100 people in front of that store, looks like a funeral waiting to happen.  Why is a consist gathering like that allowed?  My guess would be…. The storeowners lost control of their own business by these street thugs, if you will.  Any worth while business would not allow a group of people to disgrace his business.  Arrrest them all and keep it moving

posted by: terrapin on July 8, 2010  10:35am

Mr. Casey paints a much sunnier picture of Habitat’s success rate in Newhallville than is actually true. Years ago, a member of a family moving into a home on Newhall Street was badly assaulted and the family continually harassed, largely because they were from outside the neighborhood. I have seen at least three Habitat homes sold in recent years by people fleeing the neighborhood. The only difference perhaps is that now the real estate market is so bad that people are now willing to simply abandon their homes.

posted by: S on July 8, 2010  11:03am

Do you honestly think the problem is the number of corner stores?  I think you are not understanding causation vs. correlation.

This is a very sad story.  Regulating corner stores is not the answer, but I’m not sure what is.

posted by: Morris Cove Mom on July 8, 2010  11:17am

Some of the problem with ‘helping the neighborhood’ is that people like Bill Casey don’t live in it.  They live in better, whiter, non-violent neighborhoods, and don’t understand why anyone who owns a home wouldn’t feel safe and happy.

And I agree with the corner store mentality.  If there are tons of little corner stores, primarily selling cigarettes, scratch off tickets, and prepaid phone cards, then the clientele that frequents them are not shopping there for food and snacks.  They are loitering, drumming up drug business, and threatening the good people in the neighborhood.

I feel for Sandra, and wish she could buy one of the foreclosures in my neighborhood.  Then she would deal with less drug dealing and violence.  But there is nowhere in New Haven that is 100% safe.

posted by: Cedarhillresident on July 8, 2010  11:22am

That is our favorite line where I am “Keep it Moving”  I feel for this women. I got a deal on my house through Hud..bid on it. I felt like I was given a chance to own a house and have dedicated my time and energy into making this area a better place to live…which is what the whole hud chance was for. But have had windows broken, tires slashed in the process. But what I found to work was I go door to door to register voters and door to door for events and greenspace and now all the people know me. I preach how we can be different but we need to at the least respect our neighbors and our community. It seems to work and I am not bothers anymore. Of course you will always have a few that don’t get it…but you just keep trying.

I am not sure which street you really live on but 186 + 21 is over 200 for a house in a really if-y area. Now that may have been the going rate back in 2006 but my guess is you will have to take a big loose if you sell it now. Noticing alot of houses in New Haven sold for far more in 2006 than the selling price in 2005 and 2007. Strange. Now you did this trough yale buyer so they gave you 25% down?

posted by: Cedarhillresident on July 8, 2010  12:43pm

Agree Morse Cove mom…I give them credit for helping but you can not understand unless you live there awhile.

This story is in the Reg.
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/07/08/business/dd1_housing0708070810.txt

posted by: anon on July 8, 2010  12:46pm

The problem isn’t corner stores (though much more code enforcement is needed there). The real problem is that Obama, Rell, Lamont, DeStefano, et al, are telling us that our economy is getting better (or will get better soon), when it is not (and won’t). The reality is that due to our policies, unemployment is over 50% for certain population groups and neighborhoods, has been that way for years and is not getting better, and the gap between the rich and poor is widening more quickly than ever before.  Most of our tax money is going to support wealthier Americans, banks, oil companies, and highway and prison construction, at great cost to infants, the young, poor, and immigrants.  The government spends $9,000 per year on each elderly person, versus $900 on each child. Our infrastructure and transportation systems are collapsing, but the government’s response is to borrow a little more money to give wealthy mega-corporations, bond finance companies and engineering firms, not to give money to neighborhoods to build sidewalks, plant trees or have decent child care.  We can’t address an issue like neighborhood violence until we have a reality check on this. 

The constant robbing of the poor and young to give to the middle class and rich isn’t just a concern to Newhallville or people living in New Haven - in the long term, it’s costing everyone more money NOT to address our growing income gap and collapsing education/career systems than it would cost to resolve them. 

Of course, that may not be a concern to the small minority of the population who are voters, elected representatives and government officials, who are often over 50, middle-class or wealthy who have no problem passing these costs down to the next generation as long as they have a car, large house, crazy-expensive health care and retirement pension. 

If a few people become more active in highlighting the real issues and working on building a fairer and more sustainable society, politicians may stop catering just to this tiny minority, and this will change. 

It won’t happen by engaging our police department, 90% of which doesn’t even live in our city. It won’t help for people to move, because the problems aren’t confined to a small area (for the first time, there’s now more poverty in suburbs than cities) and we will end up paying much more later if we don’t tackle the root problem.

posted by: Cedar Math on July 8, 2010  1:01pm

Try 186 minus 21 minus yale incentive, for a two family.  Still very high.  Warner is a great guy with a heart that stretches over the whole area.

posted by: Cedarhillresident on July 8, 2010  1:23pm

Cedar Math
Sorry maybe I miss read it said they got a second mortgage from LCI for 21,000? And I just asked if they where part of the 25% program

posted by: Concerned Citizen on July 8, 2010  1:29pm

This story reads like some gangland style place in an abandoned community. Where are the police? If Sandra knows about the house where the gang of 10 men roam and wait for her son, why doesn’t the police?  I take it that her son is now 18 and considered an adult; what does that has to do with the fact that he is in danger and needs protection?!!! The previous writer is correct, if someone sees an adult being abused and call the police, is the police going to say the person being abused needs to place the call?  This makes no sense.

While it is important that citizens form block watch and band together to prevent crimes, it is equally important that police move in to eradicate crimes; do whatever it takes to prevent thugs from congregating in an abandoned house and from patrolling the streets terrorizing citizens. Find out what else is being sold at the corner stores and make it impossible for business to go on.

As cynical as it seems one must wonder aloud if this would have been the same attitude of the police and City Hall if these things were taking place in Westville or Wooster Square?

Where are all the dozens of pastors and the various community activists?  Why are thugs being allowed to drive out decent citizens?  No doubt those from “the community” are playing it safe by not interfering and so the thugs win.  How truly discouraging and SAD!  Now we understand why—regardless of the financial incentives—many people will not move into these areas where clearly the police and the City of NH have no concern for the lives of the residents.  Unless someone gets killed nothing is taken seriously enough. Even then the interest is short lived. There are not adequate efforts to prevent crimes and keep the community safe - how frightening!

The tax-paying citizens in these areas should march on City Hall to demand protection NOW!

posted by: Faye on July 8, 2010  5:07pm

I purchased a property on Orchard St.through LCI in 2005, thank GOD I was able to sell it 3 yrs later and get the heck out of there. They painted this picture that the neighborhood was being revitalized and up and coming, and blah blah blah. I saw zero improvement in the 3 yrs that I lived there. I feel for this woman. I was miserable coming home everday to the dirty streets, and ignorant neighbors (some). People don’t have respect anymore, especially the teenagers. They sell these properties to make money, not to improve the neighborhoods. The city could care less.

posted by: Jonathan Hopkins on July 8, 2010  8:08pm

anon brings up some great points. Science Park needs to have jobs for the unemployed and underemployed people living in Dixwell and Newhallville. Newhallville was built as work force housing for the Winchester Factory. Plentiful manual labor jobs lead to demand for nearby affordable housing, so developers helped pay for extended trolley lines to serve Newhallville to make the land viable for building and houses sprouted rapidly for decades.
The social conditions highlighted by this family’s experience is the result of decades of government sponsored policies that destroyed urban centers like New Haven.
The school rebuilding project is nearly complete and it will result in new facilities for students. Non-profits like neighborhood Housing Services, Habitat for Humanity, and others are doing great work rehabilitating old housing and building new houses. The city needs to now redirect money from education into neighborhood public works projects and streetscape improvements. We also need to provide incentives for people who work in the city to live in it as well. Improved public infrastructure and a large workforce living within walkable, urban neighborhoods will provide the demand for jobs and commerce, which in turn will provide more incentives for people to move to the city. And jobs where the owners and bosses live in the area (Prospect Hill or East Rock) and commerce that is defined by local businesses and stores run by community members and nearby property owners.
What makes this process so difficult to implement is situations like the one highlighted in this article. The problem is so severe that simply being a responsible homeowner and neighbor is not enough to counteract the results of decades of social degradation and urban decay manifested through gangs, violence and illogical acts. This is perhaps something for police, street outreach workers, but most likely something that warrants this family simply giving up and trying to get out, which means a longer recovery period for this section of Newhallville.

posted by: BillyBob on July 8, 2010  9:53pm

I’m new to Fair Haven, New Haven and CT altogether. My opinion here doesn’t fall into the category of “strenthening neighborhood relationships through homeownership” but more along the lines of police enforcement in troubled areas.  Stop driving your fully marked vehicles down the street as if you are a parade float and put some (a lot really) plainclothes officers in plain cars on the street.  A little covert action would go along way dealing with this element. From what I’ve seen NHPD operates like a small town ya-who department in Kansas instead of a city agency in a city with real crime and quality of life problems.  Get tough and send a message.  In my neighborhood and Newhallville that is what the people want.  Once that’s under control the non-profits can come in and bestow us with their neighborhood wonderfulness love-fests

posted by: ed on July 8, 2010  10:09pm

I say get out now don’t wait till someone gets killed! How much is one member of your family’s life worth. ...

posted by: Hood Rebel on July 8, 2010  11:35pm

This story exemplifies one of the many frustrations of some aspects of the hood. Here you have the family doing the right thing trying to make a better life; young male child gets caught up and family engages the system to help save him; family and system fails and the most negative culture prevails. The situation then spirals into a nightmare and potential life and death tragedy for the family.

This is a perfect storm and tragic example where real thoughtful intervention is needed to target and closely support young boys, like this kid,BEFORE they get caught up.

At the same time what about these 10 known thugs freely roaming the streets preying on the city’s most susceptible and high risk victims—young black boys.

posted by: anon on July 9, 2010  12:59am

The above posters bring up important questions. Who is monitoring the effectiveness of the police?

Questions should be answered like: How many citizens do officers talk to (e.g., have a conversation of more than 30 seconds) each day in Newhallville?  How many of those are under the age of 30?  How much money are taxpayers spending per hour of walking beat? How many blocks are walked per hour? How many calls or crimes are actually responded to and resolved (people stop calling when nothing happens)?  How often do officers speed through the neighborhood in a car (it seems that about half the time I see an officer in my neighborhood, they are speeding through it in a car - not exactly a positive picture) versus walk through it? Which traffic signals are being enforced each month and which aren’t? How many people ticketed in the neighborhood each month are suburban residents coming to buy drugs? How many plainclothes officers are deployed each day and where? What proportion of total police time is spent writing tickets, at a desk, in the car, versus walking the neighborhood? I’m sure there would be tons of other questions that citizens would have about what the police do with their time, especially if you asked younger residents. These are the types of questions that the department could answer, and track at a neighborhood level, if they were more proactive at trying to prove how effective they are. 

Without the answers, it’s easy to assume that there isn’t much going on.  And even more importantly, without the questions, it’s easy to assume that nobody cares.

posted by: working(too hard) mom on July 9, 2010  7:05am

This woman should just walk away from this house.  If she is employed and can pay for tuition, then she can find a rent outside of New Haven and live in peace.  Homeownership should not be a life or death ordeal on a daily basis.  It is not worth it.  Leave, let the bank take the house and enjoy watching your kids grow up safe.  She should also write a letter to the new Chief of NHPD, so he can see what he’s dealing with.

posted by: Paul Martin on July 9, 2010  8:58am

You know, anon really makes a good point in his 2nd posting.

The NHPD tolerates a certain level of lawlessness in this city. Cars run red lights. We all know it. Everybody knows it.  (it’s a big ticket and been a big deal everywhere else I’ve lived, as in “that guy ran a red!” rather than “yeah, everyone here runs reds.”)

If you can get away with that, and with hanging out on a corner, and dumping trash on your curb, or parking 25 junkers in your yard, or shooting a kid on a Sunday afternoon in the middle of a street a block away from one of the city’s busiest avenues, it sends a signal.

There are serious crimes going on and too many people have become too tolerant of an ambient level of violence.

I think you can overstate the success of ‘broken windows’ policing, but it’s time for more of that in New Haven.

posted by: anon on July 9, 2010  9:54am

Agree, Paul, but how does that get “measured” and who asks the questions?

Citizens have asked for information like this but there has seemed to be little forthcoming. For example, the police purchased enormously costly noise meters to monitor motorcycles a couple years back. How often have those been used?

posted by: streever on July 9, 2010  10:35am

Paul,

the daily lawlessness I see in East Rock alone by NHPD & city employees assures me that their is 0 will to change this at City Hall.

343NH is the license plate of a BOE employee who parks on sidewalks, speeds, does not stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, and (I suspect seeing him parked by Orange/Edwards and at Wilbur Cross) was given a City owned & paid for car to go a few blocks to work every day.

On a regular basis I see a Supervisor NHPD car illegally parked at P&M despite their being a half dozen open legal spots all around him.

I have seen NHPD officers run red lights on Orange Street—I saw one almost t-bone a woman who was driving fine and then SCREAM at her, call her names, and speed off in a rage at 50+ mph down Livingston, blowing a red light with oncoming traffic, before going back to a normal speed limit.

Our District Manager says, “I can’t talk to the officers about it because then they won’t respect me”.

Yea, it’s a screwed up situation, and now that we have a Police Chief who is instructed in how and when to speak, I don’t see it changing anytime soon.

posted by: Doug on July 9, 2010  10:39am

What a sad story! Kudos to Melissa Bailey ... this is excellent work!

At some point Sandra may just decide to walk away from the home and mortgage because of the gangs and I wouldn’t blame her for doing so. Gangs destroy neighborhoods and don’t care about anyone but themselves. Maybe the police will focus on this area after seeing this story. Let’s hope so.

posted by: Ned on July 9, 2010  11:00am

I would dump that place and fast.  She’s already underwater on the mortgage and overvalued for tax purposes.  That neighborhood is like the A*-list for New Haven real estate.  The theme song for that area - Flipper!  I wonder if she can sue the broker/agency/anyone for fraud in misrepresenting the neighborhood?

posted by: Cedarhillresident on July 9, 2010  2:50pm

If she is going to walk away she needs to buy a house elsewhere before she does because her credit will be shot.

With that said Ned Yale buyer program is specifically designed to get more active people into bad areas. Most are told this when they sign on.

This is a list of the approved streets
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/hbuyer/documents/homebuyer_streets_area.pdf

posted by: Edward_H on July 9, 2010  4:38pm

Since the police can’t help maybe these guys can?

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/trent_and_juneboy_wage_peace/

posted by: Threefifths on July 9, 2010  6:00pm

If she is smart she move south were she would get more for her money.As soon as I can get a suck to buy my house North Carolina here I come.

http://www.newhomes.com/houses/homedetail.jsp?regionid=407&homeid=51413&siteid=1&state=North Carolina

posted by: Edward_H on July 9, 2010 4:38pm
Since the police can’t help maybe these guys can?

How are you doing,Have seen you post in a long time.Good to have you back.

posted by: Walt on July 10, 2010  9:53am

The real crime is that some flipper sold her a house in Newhallville for $207,150.  Move the decimal to the left and maybe…

posted by: beefair on July 10, 2010  10:59am

OMG Edward H are we agreeing on something or are you being facetious? Street Outreach workers are the ones who can get the job done and they do because they love, respect and are invested in the community, are well known, and understand all the challenges of living in a neglected community. Concerned citizen, anon and Streever touched on several. If people would just get their heads out of ...... and put away their self righteous indignation they would see that its the conditions that continue to perpetuate violence and hopelessness in Newhallville and other neglected urban centers around the nation. It’s the few people who are unable to navigate life through these conditions who get the media attention.Address the conditions(joblessness, drug addiction including prescription drugs and alcohol,high incarceration,abandoned youth, abandoned buildings,substandard educational centers,untreated and mistreated mental illness,overwhelmed parents who get blamed for everything except global warming and the BP oil spill, homelessness,overpaid public officials who shy away from the real problem) and see how quickly the face of the community changes. Building beautiful homes in the center of utter chaos do not make the community safe nor flourish. i would ask why Yale (or anyone) would offer funding and the criteria is that you must buy within a toxic environment. How many of those providing the funding would live there? Sometimes you have to look a gift horse in the mouth.

posted by: Morris Cove Mom on July 10, 2010  1:10pm

Concerned Citizen: The reason why gangs are winning in this town is that one gun is scarier than a pastor and fifty parishoners standing up to crime in their neighborhood.

I don’t know about you, but the thought of ten teenage boys, possibly armed, is terrifying to me.  So even though I want to help eradicate the gangs in New Haven, I can’t.  I’m not willing to put myself in the line of fire, when I have a small children at home who need their mother.

I’d rather abandon everything I own, and drive off somewhere, like Sandra might be forced to.

If I were her, I would consult an attorney about what to do.  Maybe there is some legal way to get out from under all of this, all the misrepresentation, the danger, the loans, everything.

I am happy to live in Morris Cove, but I don’t confront the cars dealing drugs in front of my house…because they might have guns, too.  There is no where perfectly safe, no matter which neighborhood you live in.

And seeing our taxes rise just makes us all more desperate financially, and angry with the city and the policing of it.

posted by: Consti2amend on July 10, 2010  1:16pm

Please read:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_3_black_family.html#

This should help clear up some of your answers! 

BTW, this is NOT meant in ANY WAY to be “racially charged”!  Just something to think about!

I live in the Hill, and I have seen some of the things discussed in the article.  One of the store-owners in my area, who has several children, can’t even see his oldest child turn away from the family!  The child (teenager), USED TO BE very friendly and outgoing!  Now, he is angry at everyone/everything!
The YEARS I have helped him; from building bikes, doing projects for school, etc, have seem to have made NO bit of difference to him.  He will not even acknowledge ANY of his parent’s friends!  ESPECIALLY if they are encountered on the street!
The other “teens” he hangs with now, ARE NOT “of good intent”. 

It just goes to show; it doesn’t matter how hard the parent’s try, it IS STILL up to the child to make their decision on WHO they want to be!

posted by: dolly on July 10, 2010  9:59pm

its saddens me to see & heard how are young are acting—an its worst to read there obituaries-this generation seems to fear nothing-an thats a big problem—Once :God “was removed from our schools,holidays (theres lots more),an rebellion stepped in (devil)an took our young from us—Praying over them & for them,will start the devil back on a down wood spiral-Pray for our young-PLEASE

posted by: BillyBob on July 11, 2010  11:05am

Dolly’s train of thought is exactly why I recently left Atlanta and moved back here for good.  The “devil” is no more responsible for the little thugs behavior than my neighbors dog is.  They are 100% responsible. Time for NHPD to step up and send a message. Then lock them up where they belong.

posted by: Threefifths on July 11, 2010  9:36pm

posted by: dolly on July 10, 2010 9:59pm

Once :God “was removed from our schools,holidays (theres lots more),an rebellion stepped in (devil)an took our young from us—Praying over them & for them,will start the devil back on a down wood spiral-Pray for our young-PLEASE

What does gang violence have to do with God being removed from our schools,holidays.There was gang violence when god was around.You have people who don’t belive in god who are into violence.

posted by: Threefifths on July 12, 2010  9:15am

: Threefifths on July 11, 2010 9:36pm
posted by: dolly on July 10, 2010 9:59pm

Once :God “was removed from our schools,holidays (theres lots more),an rebellion stepped in (devil)an took our young from us—Praying over them & for them,will start the devil back on a down wood spiral-Pray for our young-PLEASE

What does gang violence have to do with God being removed from our schools,holidays.There was gang violence when god was around.You have people who don’t belive in god who are into violence.

My correction.You have people who don’t belive in god who are not into violence.

posted by: Cedarhillresident on July 12, 2010  9:32am

I am with you on that one Fraction.

I personally thing that neighborhood schools where the key. They made a village. They made for community meetings every morning. Talking to people a few blocks over know who is who. TELLING there parents in a group setting as to not be singled out…. what destroyed these community’s is just that!

posted by: AnnieMouse on July 12, 2010  1:50pm

I think these non profits especially Bill Casey and Habitat do a great job.  Habitat stays involved with homeowners well after their purchase.  These families become part of the habitat community.  The reason that these developers do clusters of houses in a community is to build a support network but as cedar hill stated it doesn’t stop there.  To be welcomed into ANY community you need to be involved.  While schools is a good and easy way to do that there are always other ways to do so.  The Newhallville barbecue was a great example, there are tons of Newhallville community gardens, pick your neighborhood group, be it a block watch, friends of a park group, a local church. It seems like Sandra sadly never had that opportunity. 

And concerned citizen - the answer is yes - if the son is over 18 (which he sounds like he is) unless the mother witnessed the assault (which it does not sound like she did) the individual needs to place the complaint, and even if she did, if the son does not wish to press charges its donzo.  Take abused women - no matter how much you want to help them they have to be ready to file that complaint themselves - not matter how many bruises, broken bones etc.

posted by: TRACY on July 15, 2010  9:18am

SUPPOSE IF THIS LADY DON’T HAVE ANY MONEY TO MOVE OUT;ITS COST A LOT FOR AN APARTMENT NOW AT LEAST $3,050.00 THATS JUST THE SECURITY AND THE FIRST’S MONTH RENT.SOMETIMES ITS EASIER SAID THEN DONE;WE’RE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN;WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SITUATION THIS LADY IS IN.MAYBE SHE DOES NOT HAVE THE FINANCES;BESIDES I CHECKED HER STORY OUT,I ASKED HER WHY ARE HER KIDS IN A CATHOLIC SCHOOL;HER RESPONSE WAS THEY OFFERED HER LINCOLN BASSETT THATS HER ZONING AREA.SHE ALSO STATED SHE APPLIES FOR MAGNET SCHOOLS EVERY YEAR AND HER CHILDREN ARE ON A WAITING LIST.OUR CHILDREN OUR ARE FUTURE AS WE ALL KNOW THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN NEW HAVEN;THE CLASSROOMS ARE OVER OVERCROWDED.THE TEACHERS CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH.SOME OF THE CHILDREN ARE OUT OF CONTROL.WHY DON’T WE TRY TO REACH OUT TO HER;TRY AND GIVE HER SOME ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO NEXT.

posted by: Jamara Newell on July 31, 2010  3:23am

Story sounds a bit dubious. I grew up in similar if not more notorious environs and know the deal. The young brother got caught up in street life and this is the repercussions, moving won’t help, getting him on the right track will.