New Haven Independent

posted by: robn on October 10, 2011  8:29am

I can gear the chants now…

“What do we want !?”
“I DON’T KNOW!!!”
“When do we want it !?”
“NOW!!!!”

posted by: bunker on October 10, 2011  8:29am

I would be all for this movement if the just made a slight change in their mission statement to “Protest government influence in corporations” !

posted by: anonymous democrat on October 10, 2011  9:13am

... None of these protesters i have talked to in NY come across as too sharp, and I have spoken to about 8 so far. But they are very colorful(hair color wise) and almost humorous to talk to at this point with their idealism, hypocrisy, and militancy.

posted by: William Hosley on October 10, 2011  9:18am

It’s hard to imagine or discern what the Occupy movement actually wants. It should be needless to say that the Federal and State governments are affected - sometimes dramatically - by special interest lobbying off all kinds - form the left and from the right. To single out corporations - which have driven America’s economy since before the Civil War - is to address only a small part of the problem.

While no one has yet suggested closing down world trade - which has made 1000s of things we use more affordable (while decimating jobs once performed in the US) - globalism almost guarantees greater centralization of power, larger corporations, less control and the likely decline in value of American labor. IT industry, as an example, outsources almost everything.

What’s the solution? That’s the question we should be discussing - rather than protesting with the false hope that bullying wall street and the corporate sector will do much of anything.

posted by: Occupy WALL ST on October 10, 2011  9:40am

I have no idea why they chose to occupy the green. Why on earth would they try to stear clear from arrests and disruptions?  The fact is, there is a WALL STREET in New Haven that is already the center of a class struggle.  Yale refuses to pay to keep Wall Street closed, which means public employees are losing their jobs. OCCUPY WALL STREET NEW HAVEN!

Also, the decision to “avoid disruptions” is completely spineless. I know, I know, make it accessable to everyone. Frankly, my first impression of downtown New Haven ever was watching hundreds and hundreds of clerical workers (like my mother) getting arrested for blocking the streets. This city has too rich a fighting labor history to try to avoid confrontation.

And who are these so-called leaders? Some rich anti-capitalist entrepenuer and his entourage? Where were they in every other local social movement, now they want to be at the helm of this one, as if they represent the whole community.

How about an OCCUPY WALL STREET NEW HAVEN movement that has a spine to run concurrently with the spineless alternative economy Occupy The Green?

P.S. There’s already tons of people fully entrenched in the struggle who occupy the green every night.

posted by: Soleniska on October 10, 2011  10:16am

Finally, a forum is set to voice the frustrations of the mass. I hope it finds solidarity in an effort to promote change not just a venue to express anger. Like all new movements, the first step is to increase
conscious awareness. From this we can hold our leaders to task and in unity demand change for the betterment of human kind.

posted by: Trolls on October 10, 2011  10:21am

Please Do Not Feed The Trolls.

(They’re jealous they didn’t think of this first.)

posted by: Anonymous on October 10, 2011  10:30am

“We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught. He can be killed and forgotten. But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world.”

You can yell, you can kick and scream all the way until the Occupation starts and beyond, you can ridicule us, you can infiltrate our ranks, and you can even do us physical harm.  But all of this will have no effect.  Why, you ask?  That’s simple: Behind this movement are not “demands”, but an idea, and ideas are bulletproof.

posted by: HhE on October 10, 2011  10:30am

Just the other day, I received a robocall from Bill Clinton.  A rather ironic call; not because I voted against him the second time, nor that his message was that I ought to vote in the Teamsters’ election (a union I have never belonged to).  Rather that he would be stumping for a trade union (and handsomely paid for his work I am sure) after he work to export jobs from America, and his signing into law the credit swaps that did so much undo our economy.

Remember the well meaning college students who tried setting up small farms and communes in the ‘60s and ‘70s?  That didn’t last very long.  If you really want to change the world, try being the change you want.  Corporate greed works because so many people want so much stuff—cheep. 

I know a number of “Wall Street” types, and believe me this protest is a big nothing to them.  I doubt they will even slow down their Beamers to look.

posted by: ignoranceisbliss on October 10, 2011  10:34am

@Occupy WALL STREET

Would not occupying Wall Street (New Haven) keep it closed- sort of the opposite of your objective to make Yale pay?

posted by: Billy on October 10, 2011  11:21am

I suggest that the organizers familiarize themselves with the work of Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward. Their theories related to organizing social movements could be incredibly instructive.  Sometimes being “disruptive” and impolite…and getting arrested…are the best ways to make real change.  They are the evidence-based solutions!

On another note, with the amount of support this group is asking for from New Haven…food, clothing, other supplies, time, general support…this has to become more than a camping trip for well-meaning idealists.

posted by: Bill on October 10, 2011  11:34am

It would be interesting to know how many of these people bother to vote, I suspect not too many.

posted by: Anderson Scooper on October 10, 2011  12:42pm

If he wasn’t so fearful of being arrested, I’d gladly follow Ben Aubin through the gates of heck?

Anyway, if you want an example of a successful sit-in protest, go back to the 80’s when Yale students took on the administration forcing the University to divest itself from South African companies:
http://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/yale-students-campaign-divestment-south-africa-1985-1987

That actually got something done, leading to the softening which ended up with the elimination of apartheid. And yeah, the students all got arrested!

Fwiw.

posted by: Haters on October 10, 2011  1:14pm

Behind every successful person or group is a pack of haters.

posted by: robn on October 10, 2011  1:19pm

Here are ten good ideas allowing individuals to effect immediate meaningful change (every day)...

1) Take your money out of that big corporate bank and put it in Start Community Bank or a credit union.

https://www.startbank.com/

2) Donate time money or goods to a local operation that helps disadvantaged people have a more productive life. There are many but LifeHaven springs to mind.

http://www.lifehaven.org/

3) Register people to vote and educate them with accurate information.(truthiness)

http://www.particip8.org/vote/

4) Mentor a local student.

http://www.nhps.net/node/405

http://www.acementor.org/495

5) Buy local and buy used (Goodwill has more stuff than they know what to do with…buy it and you’ve given them operating cash as well as kept something out of the waste-stream.)

http://locator.goodwill.org/

6) Support artists. (if you don’t think its important, take a moment and try to imagine a world without art).

http://www.cwos.org/

7) Support regional farming…buy their goods.

http://www.farmfresh.org/food/farm.php?farm=2845

http://www.cityseed.org/

8) Call your congressperson about issues that matter to you…then call your friends and tell them the same. Don’t think it works? Lots of issues have been swayed by public passion.

http://blumenthal.senate.gov/contact/

http://delauro.house.gov/contact_form_email.cfm

9) Go to important Board of Aldermen meetings and voice your concern for the public record.

http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/aldermen/index.asp

10) Support your local newspaper (knowledge is power…theres no better antiseptic than sunshine…etc…)

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/donate/support_NHI/

posted by: Philo on October 10, 2011  1:27pm

There is a lot of speculation as to the purpose behind the Occupy protests. And I am sure if you were to survey the protestors you might get a variety of answers to the question: what is this protest about? But, I think it is quite obvious what this protest is about. It’s about a generation of people trying to be heard. Sure, they might not have a cohesive message or plan in regards to economics, politics, etc., but they do share the sentiment that too many people are being left out of what should be a national conversation about economics and government. The protestors represent the people that are labeled as the progeny of the bourgeois and thus not entitled to a voice, since they are the ones who do consume most of the products created by the very corporations they are protesting against. But, they are entitled to a voice, however ridiculous it might sound. And this is what we are good at; labeling and dividing people when we should be focused on unification. Our national economic problems affect people of almost every socio-economic background and it would behoove us to put aside our differences in order to rebuild our economy and our government so that we may all benefit from a more equitable distribution of wealth and power.

The only good thing that might actually come from the Occupy protests is a greater awareness of the breadth of our problems as well as our general hypocrisy when it comes to issues of consumption and materialism. Maybe then we’ll realize how absurd our current system is and begin the work of revolution.

posted by: Bill Saunders on October 10, 2011  1:49pm

Scooper,

If my anecdotal New Haven History is correct, didn’t a visitting Yale Alum aka “Crazy Elwood” set fire to the shanty-town protest?

posted by: HhE on October 10, 2011  2:12pm

Well said robn and Philo.

posted by: robn on October 10, 2011  2:45pm

BS,

Ellwood Bracey, Class of 1958.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/06/nyregion/yale-shanty-burns-and-alumnus-is-held.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

posted by: Bill Saunders on October 10, 2011  2:56pm

Robn,

Man, you are a wealth of great info today.
Maybe we can OCCUPY on of our local bars one day and have a drink.

posted by: EastShore on October 10, 2011  3:54pm

@Billy-
Solid advice of yours regarding Piven & Cloward.  As luck would have it, this Wednesday at 6:30pm Frances Fox PIven will be speaking during a national teach-in.  This teach-in will be broadcast at SCSU, in room A120A of Engleman Hall.  The webcast will be followed by a local strategy discussion.  And there will be pizza.

posted by: Bill Saunders on October 10, 2011  7:38pm

Here is some age old commentary on the present situation to enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXcGF2qv2CY

posted by: Threefifths on October 10, 2011  7:45pm

posted by: robn on October 10, 2011 8:29am
I can gear the chants now…

“What do we want !?”
“I DON’T KNOW!!!”
“When do we want it !?”
“NOW!!!!”

Alan Grayson on Occupy Wall Street

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhrwmJcsfT0&feature=player_embedded#!

posted by: Leonard J. Honeyman on October 10, 2011  7:47pm

The following is from the front page of today’s New York Times in a story about China.
“Under an economic system that favors state-run banks and companies over wage earners…”
Take the words, “state-run” out, and you have the situation in this country.
The government, at least the House of Representatives, favors banks and companies over wage earners. The Senate and White House don’t have the political will or guts to challenge them.
I believe that is what these occupiers are protesting.
They are occupiers because they don’t have a paying occupation and want the job creators to start creating some jobs instead of paying themselves huge bonuses and sitting on the funds, but not hatching any jobs. And don’t blame shareholders. They are not doing so well either.

posted by: Anonymous on October 10, 2011  9:41pm

To those criticizing Occupy Wall Street, you are in good company. The bankers, oligarchs, and Wall Street profiteers have also denounced us. The rest of the world sees what is happening and they support us. We are 99%.

“The way to understand all of this is to realize that it’s part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?_r=2

If you have ideas, please keep sharing them. We appreciate the constructive criticism and we will try to incorporate your thoughts in our movement. Even better, present your ideas in person at our next General Assembly: Saturday, October 15th.

posted by: joey on October 10, 2011  10:26pm

I would not hire one of these poeple. They have nothing to offer society so they complain and protest. What a waste!

posted by: tony on October 10, 2011  11:34pm

The link to the website we started points back to this same article.
It should be to http://www.free-haven.org/

thanks,
tony

posted by: ReptilianFreeGovt on October 11, 2011  12:38am

This is all just a smoke screen covering the war our country has been fighting against extraterrestrials in Antarctica since 2004. Julian Assange was going to blow the lid off of it before he was arrested on made up sex charges. The people of Mexico City have known this for 14 years since UFOs appeared over their skies which originated from underwater bases in the southern sea. Our govt has clearly been infiltrated by these creatures; John Destefano, Justin Elicker, all CLEARLY humanoreptilian hybrids. Now Ben Aubin. Why not just hand them our planet, people?

posted by: Lance on October 11, 2011  12:57am

ROBN love that first comment!

If these protesters aren’t cutting it they should blame themselves not those with superior work ethic and intelligence.

posted by: robn on October 11, 2011  8:53am

RFG,

Only Retired Airforce Colonel Craig Baldwin can save us now.

posted by: Uncle Egg on October 11, 2011  10:07am

The media is being incredibly hypocritical in its coverage of this. As I recall, the Tea Party (at least, before it was completely overtaken by the GOP) didn’t have clearly established objectives, and a lot of those protestors didn’t exactly have day jobs, either. And now that I think of it, with 9 percent unemployment, not having a job is hardly a badge of laziness in this day and age.

It strikes me that the very fact that the Occupy Wall Street movement is specifically targeting Wall Street says everything you need to know about why they’re out there.

Our democracy is corrupt. Moneyed interests such as corporations have far more sway over our political system than voters do. The only reason nobody calls it corruption is because the people who benefit from it wrote the laws that make it legal.

Occupy Wall Street seeks to call attention to the corruption of our democracy, and to bring it to an end. The protestors may have varying ideas about how that should happen, but the overarching goal is so loud and clear that you’d have to be an idiot to miss it.

In terms of what action they should be advocating, my vote goes to a constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United.

posted by: JAK on October 11, 2011  10:15am

The Occupy “movement” will not be serious until the occupiers start to put their consumption habits to the test. 

You don’t like Wall street and Corporate greed?  Then put your money where your bongos are.  BOYCOTT them!  If you really mean what you say then don’t buy or even use anything that has enriched Wall Street bankers or corporate CEOs.

Predictions:

Mega-coffee corporation Starbucks on Church and Chapel will have record sales and bathroom stops from protestors;

Greedy Bank of America ATM will have record ATM withdrawals;

Wall street darling Apple store will be teaming with “protestors” buying up the latest IPhone;

Want to be taken seriously?

Let’s see how many of the comrades are wrapped in their handmade woolen blankets huddling together inside snow igloos eating organic preserves on a bitter cold snowy cold day in late December.  Now THAT’s a protest!

posted by: Alphonse Credenza on October 11, 2011  10:17am

Anti-corporate?  They must be joking.

http://biggovernment.com/files/2011/10/Occupy-Corporations1.jpg

posted by: Go Figure on October 11, 2011  10:54am

I think this movement is important, however I can’t believe that we protest wall street and not those members in congress that have created a roadblock to accomplishing those things that are necessary to improve our economy and create real jobs for the many who are not able to feed their families, insure themselves and their families and keep their homes.  The most vulnerable are suffering and the middleclass has become the new poor Our government is disfunctional the business of the people is not getting done and we are distracted by other things.  We need to re-focus the current protesting not only on wall street and corporate greed but on what is happening in Washington.  There are those in washington who believe that the american electorate gave this Just Say No message and mentality in the last election. We need to send a message that we need the work of the people to be done. Done NOW!!!! This message needs to be made clear to the White House as well.

posted by: robn on October 11, 2011  11:29am

LANCE,

Minus the “destroy all capitalism” messages I agree with much of what Occupy Wall Street is about.

I agree that unregulated bankers and traders and hedge funds burned down the world economy.

I agree that it’s a travesty that no one went to jail (except Bernard Madoff who stole other rich folks money).

I agree that “Too Big To Fail” is a flawed premise that encourages bad behavior.

I agree that there’s no such thing as a free market.

I agree that unsavory mortgage lenders added fuel to the fire of our economic meltdown.

I agree that conservative’s unwillingness to properly fund government is a lapse of the social contract.

I agree that if you’re given the opportunity to make a lot of money in this country, you should pay some of it back in taxes.

I agree that our health insurance system is predatorial, putting working families over the edge when crisis hits.

I understand the symbolism of what’s going on down there but question the passivity and that’s why I’m being sarcastic. Wait for the real fireworks…watch what happens when ANONYMOUS targets major stock exchanges.

posted by: Curious on October 11, 2011  12:15pm

If this protest has any of the flavor othe the Sixties, the primary objective is the same: Get laid!

posted by: Adam Smith on October 11, 2011  2:58pm

According to Adam Smith:

“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.” Book V, The Wealth of Nations.



“All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” Book III, Chapter IV, The Wealth of Nations.

I wonder if the Republicans have ever read these quotes?

posted by: New Haven Fail on October 11, 2011  3:38pm

A few thoughts…

1. Fantastic people are finally gettiprotesting off their asses and resisting something, Bunch of Jonny cum latelys but hey it’ll do

2. We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. Please familiarize yourself with your Civics book. (Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner)

3. You need objectives, goals, otherwise you’re just loud and in the way.

4. Capitalism didn’t get us to the mess we’re in, the socializing of economy as well as the Central Bank (the Fed) did.  Also odd one of tenets to a communist society is having a central bank, where as a true free market operates independently.

5. Recommended reading for a Revolution….Ron Paul’s ‘Revolution: A Manifesto’

6. As Robn stated, take real action, stop supporting (financially) the entities you are proesting. Buy local, american, independent. Don’t use credit. Save money. You have to make this an everyday practice.

7. Crash JP Morgan. Buy silver. (Google it if need be)

8. End The Fed.

9. Don’t compromise.

10. Don’t get divided, drop the liberal, conservative, republican, democrat name calling nonsense.

And a personal favor, sound intelligent, do your research and drop the zombie chant of we are the 99%, it sounds ridiculous, its getting you no where and is frankly a little annoying.

posted by: Icarus on October 11, 2011  4:07pm

To “Adam Smith”,

Adam Smith (along with other philosophers) suggests that everyone is selfish, not just the rich. This is obvious. People only do things for their own gain. The goal is to make helping others and the community beneficial to individuals while no bringing down the drive to succeed.

That is the strength of the Occupy Wall St. protests. On a detailed level, the protests is a joke and any demands discussed have been silly. As a whole, Bravo!

posted by: John Bethke on October 11, 2011  4:10pm

Occupy the New Haven Green??? I don’t think so!!! It’s already spoken for!!!

There’s a whole bunch of homeless people that not only occupy the green, but consider it to be a “Home”.

They aren’t going to go away when people show up looking like 1969 rejects!!!

posted by: Adam Smith on October 11, 2011  6:51pm

@ Icarus:

What I was showing with those quotes was that Adam Smith was not a champion of corporations (called joint stock companies in his day) or laws favoring aristocrats (present day Wall St. barons).

Instead Adam Smith championed a free market for the small businessman coupled with laws checking the power of joint stock companies and aristocrats.

He was not an anything-goes free marketeer. His economic theory has been turned upside down by the Chicago School and its ilk. And I would add they knew damn well what they were doing.

He would sympathize with the Occupy Movement. I’ve been to New York and I can tell you its anything but chaotic. These protesters are very well organized and know exactly what they are doing.

The protest is anything but a joke. Rather it is a long overdue response to the seizure of government by corporations and Wall Street. It’s even spread to Branford; that bastion of wild-eyed liberal hippies!

posted by: red in ct on October 11, 2011  8:18pm

Socializing of our economy?
Whoever thinks the “socializing of our economy” has ruined is is an ignoramus, with no concept whatsoever of what socialism is.
We have nothing remotely resembling socialism here.
We have corporate fascism, where corporations rule over everything.
Socialism, in its true sense, puts more power back into the hands of labor, and laborers would receive a much greater share of the profit of their own labors, unlike our exploitive, capitalist system, in which a few rich people reap all the profits from the labors of the many who slave away for them.  Read a book, or something, for Christ’s sake, and not one written by Glenn Beck.

posted by: Lance on October 12, 2011  1:49am

thanks for your response robn.

posted by: Icarus on October 12, 2011  8:16am

Adam Smith,

I think we agree to a great extent, although Adam Smith was more ignorant to corporations than again them as they did not exist in their current form…

As for the protests, I simply mean that while I agree with the overall idea, some of the individual points made by protesters are absurd. Lets keep corporations as removed from politics as possible and increase the rights and privacy of workers. However, demonizing people who work corporations is silly. Everyone is equally selfish and self serving.

posted by: HhE on October 12, 2011  9:12am

So Icarus, it your world, there is no Kant’s Moral Act since anyone doing the right thing, is not doing it for the right reasons. 

I guess when I buy toys for Lt Sweeney’s toy drive, I am just selfishly filling a whole in my soul by buying toys, and then giving them away so I won’t spoil my children, as then I would have to deal with two spoiled children.  No chance I am doing this because I am concerned about families that can barely afford to eat, let alone have a proper Christmas.  As a former school teacher who sees the educational value in good toys, my sole reason for picking out so many educational toys is the selfish hope that the children of Newhallville could become tax payers, right?

I guess all those posthumous Medals of Honor were just about the glory, and not “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” 
... could you please explain to me “noblesse oblige?”

posted by: Philo on October 12, 2011  9:35am

@NhE: One gives to charity in order to feel satisfied with one’s self, there is a benefit to the giver as well the receiver. There is no such thing as a purely selfless act. As for the medal of honour winners. Most of those people were acting on instinct and training. And, even though it is difficult to recognize, they were acting on an impulse to fill a desire, the desire to help others. Selfishness is not inherently bad as long as we find balance between preserving and promoting our self-interests and protecting and promoting the welfare of others. If it weren’t for the impulse to do for others so that we may feel better about ourselves, then people would not give to charity or volunteer, or become civil servants, etc. 

Protesting Corporate influence will not have any real affect. It’s like a lion getting stung by a bee or bitten by a mosquito. Direct action is needed; boycotts, labour co-ops, etc. Taking down the giants is going to require us to get our hands dirty and maybe even throwing away our ipads, iphones, debit cards (bank accounts), Nikes, etc.

posted by: Adam Smith on October 12, 2011  10:56am

@ Icarus,

Agreed. The demands are all over the place, but then that is to be expected in a movement that’s just getting off the ground.

And everyday workers, wherever they work, should never be blamed.

posted by: New Haven Fail on October 12, 2011  10:57am

@redinct

Name calling and unfounded theories, very nice.

Can’t say I’ve ever listened to Beck or read anything from him.

Meet my friends Mises, Rothbard, and Hazlitt. Enlightening and educational reading, start at Mises.org and have a ball.

Make some real progress, let’s Abolish the Federal Reserve and watch those in charge really begin to panic.

posted by: Philo on October 12, 2011  11:54am

New slogan: “We are the 99% who allow the powerful to remain in power and the wealthy to remain wealthy” or “We are the 99% who would be standing on line at the Apple store if the new iphone release coincides with our protest” or “we are the 99% who benefit from the exploited labour of others”

Honestly: This monster is of our own making. It is a bit ridiculous that a group that claims to be the “majority” needs to protest, in such an ineffectual way, against the minority (the 1%). If you were, in reality, the majority then you would have no problem wresting power from the monied elite, but you’re not. You’re a vocal minority from the masses that will eventually recede back into the masses (like the hippies of the 60’s) and resume participation in our dysfunctional and cruel society. The sad thing is that the people are getting shagged by the uber-wealthy and the government they control, but no one is willing to actually take a radical stand against them. And the easiest, but yet most radical thing, a person can do is stop buying so much junk. It has been said so many times on this comment thread. A person is a hypocrite who protests corporate greed while holding an iphone. Apple is the epitome of not only corporate greed, but mindless consumption of an unnecessary product.

On the 15th I think I’m going to protest the protest. I just need a catchy slogan and some posterboard.

posted by: HhE on October 12, 2011  12:35pm

Thank you Philo for enlightening me.  I just want to make sure I am clear:  the person who does no evil because they would feel the pain of guilt is no better than the psychopath who does not evil because they know they will get caught and do not care for the punishment?

I noticed that someone can describe Alderman Elicker as an alien reptile, but I cannot credit Icarus with being wiser than me.

That out of the way, I will stop typing this on my Mac, get into my BMW, and drive to Bank of America to refinance the house I bought for my soon to be Ex-Wife—which I bought for her for the purely selfish reason that I wanted to be the best father I could be, and by refinancing, I can put all that money back into my trust fund, and make even more money.

posted by: Philo on October 12, 2011  1:11pm

@Hhe: I think you missed my point. There are degrees to everything and balance is the key. A person who gives to charity and acts simply to assuage guilt is still acting on a desire to fulfill a personal motive. However, the end result, i.e. someone being fed, housed, clothed, etc., is also a good thing. However, someone who drives a BMW, when they could drive a Honda and give more money to charity, or someone who buys an Apple computer or buys any item of luxury at the expense of others, does so with more selfish intent than selfless intent and, in my opinion, is a bit greedy.  The existence of desire and the impulse thereof is value neutral, it is only perspective that adds value. But, from a purely objective perspective selfishness is an inherent natural impulse that provokes all of our actions and thoughts, even if we don’t realize it or care to admit it.

A lot of people in this country have a problem in finding balance between self-interests and the interests of others (or the collective), which is why we have such a disparity between rich and poor and the rapid evaporation of the middle class. Our economic system is not flawed, our morals are.

posted by: Stephen Harris on October 12, 2011  1:26pm

@ The Naysayers,

The phrase “We Are The 99%” isn’t meant to be taken literally. It’s a short hand way of saying there are deep structural problems in this country. You certainly can’t deny that.

Over the past few decades corporations and the financial “industry” (an oxymoron if there ever was one) have gained far too much power and influence in our government. Politicians on both sides of the isle (no, not all of them, but most) have been bought and paid for.

The average Jane and Joe have been left out and the poor have been ignored.

The Occupy movement has spread like wildfire because it has touched a raw nerve in the “99%” (that would be code for most people). I don’t think this movement - still finding its way - will go away. It is much, much bigger than the Tea Party and has attracted a broader slice of the American people.

It’s amusing to watch the conservatives call the protesters an “unwashed mob” or hippies (does anyone really still use that word?). I’m sure the British crown had the same opinion too, and look what happened to them.

I think it’s about time regular people are starting to push back. You can’t get more American than civil disobedience and protesting!

Three cheers for the mob!!

posted by: Icarus on October 12, 2011  2:01pm

HhE

“I noticed that someone can describe Alderman Elicker as an alien reptile, but I cannot credit Icarus with being wiser than me.”

Not sure if that is a shot at me or not…

However, the point is that we all make decisions for our own gain. I volunteer often as well. It makes me feel valuable and whole and supports my personal values. Society SHOULD promote and support activities that the culture considers moral such as volunteering.

That being said, not everyone shares the same values. I suggest that protesters who seek to demonize and label corporations as “evil” are misinformed and are using bogus generalizations. Protesters that seek to add incentives or rules to limit corporate influence on politics and workers lives, without pointing and wagging their fingers, will be most successful.

posted by: Thomas on October 12, 2011  6:46pm

Tuition for Private Universities are over $35,000 a semester and public universities are catching up. A lot of the protesters bemoan the debt they leave school with. Perhaps wall street isn’t the problem. The Educational Industrial Complex that hands out over payed teaching positions to the unemployable like Piven, Ayers and Ward-Churchill. Like the Dodd Frank housing bubble the federal governments “college has never been more affordable, but never more expensive” Washington is the problem.

posted by: HhE on October 12, 2011  9:36pm

Icarus, yeah, it was.  Any claim that someone cannot commit a selfless act because they will feel good for doing it is waving a red flag in front of me.  I have known too many people (which is to say, not enough) completely dedicated to Honor, Serve the Public Trust, The Greater Good, and all that, to accept the world view you and Philo described. 

In a grave crisis, we fall back on what we really are.  This is why rookies do not belong on Everest, no matter how much money they bring.  I have never seen the elephant, but I have every confidence that the majority of troops that sacrifice themselves do so because of an inner value: selfless service.

So when I helped Joe C. push his FWD car back out of a snow bank where he had scattered kitty litter next to, but not in, the tire track, I felt good doing it.  Having done to an Upstate New York college, maybe I was worried about my Karma.  I know I hated doing it, did not feel good doing it at the time, and regret doing it even now.  All I could say to him the next day when he tried to thank me was, “Please do not speak to me.”  It got worse from there.  Come to think of it, I rather have an extra heaping of bad karma, and the joy of laughing at that oxygen thief stuck in the snow, then the crummy feeling helping him game me. 

Where are you going to go with that? 

I know I am going to a Lotus dealership Friday to look at a possible replacement for my BMW.  I opine it is the responsibility of everyone who can afford to do so, to support the British motor car industry.  I’d love a Morgan, but my kids do not like rag tops and their four seater spoils the lines.  Aston-Martins are a bit much.  Jags have only automatic gearboxes.

I try to feel guilty about the BMW, but I cannot.  It is an incredibly safe car, has 188k on the clock, and goes right up Prospect Hill not mater what.  I get the same mpg as my Mom’s hybrid.  My wife has a Honda, and as good as it is, it is not nearly as good.

posted by: Implant on October 13, 2011  12:33pm

Are those protests working?
What economic model?
Everything is coming from China… all companies are going to China. If companies are leaving US and European Union of course that a crisis will come again and again.

posted by: Andrew Draves on October 18, 2011  2:14pm

Dear Paul, I would like to see Progressive leaders like yourself get together to compose a common agenda that we, the rank and file, would bring to our fellow citizens, Freeze-style. Maybe one plank could be left blank so participating organizations could fill in their special issue and promote it while also promoting the common platform. I think we need to give form to the people’s grievances of the last 4 years.  Yours truly, Drew Draves.