New Haven Independent

posted by: Ernie on April 15, 2010  12:00pm

Pit bulls are not TRAINED to fight. They are BRED and CONDITIONED to fight. Fighting comes as naturally to pit bulls as herding does to border collies and retrieving comes to labradors.
Tim, please arm yourself with a knife or a gun for future walks. It does not matter where you walk, the danger is there thanks to BadRap’s promoting pit bulls as normal dogs and encouraging everyone to own them.

posted by: Jay on April 15, 2010  12:14pm

Finding that dog in the park is unrealistic.  It was probably gone by the time they got the call anyway.

posted by: Paul on April 15, 2010  12:38pm

Time to start carrying pepper spray. I’m guessing that this was on the paved road going up to the lookout.

Probably a good idea for dog walkers there to carry spray just in case.

posted by: john on April 15, 2010  1:30pm

““What can they do?” Follert said last week. You can’t find a lone dog in the middle of a big state park.”

No, but they CAN vigorously enforce the leash law that is in effect there and throughout the city. (Yes, I am fully aware that this may not have prevented this particular incident.)

posted by: jayj on April 15, 2010  2:27pm

Tim and Matty - sorry that you had to go through this, I am sure that it must have been frightening for both of you.  Here’s to a speedy recovery.

posted by: trail blazer on April 15, 2010  2:29pm

Not that West Rock Park was safe before.

posted by: JB on April 15, 2010  3:08pm

What the authorities can do is crack down hard on dog fighting in the city.  It’s all related to the drug and crime culture anyway.  Plus, it’s barbaric as heck.  So’s the breeding.

posted by: Tim on April 15, 2010  5:28pm

JB - 100 percent agree.

John - Leash laws had nothing to do with this, this was from a culture of drugs and violence. Its not like this was some dog someone was walking without a leash and it just got angry, This was a dog that I am pretty sure escaped someones yard where he was trained to fight.

Paul - Time to start carrying a .45

posted by: Wrong on April 15, 2010  9:06pm

....crack down on the dog fighting in the city? If there is such activity going on it is deeply underground,otherwise it would be all over the news.
Sorry that Matty was injured but in reality if the “Pit Bull” was going for the kill or had truly been trained to fight it would have done more damage than a couple of punctures on the back of the neck ( most animals go for the throat even cats)You certainly wouldn’t scare off a violently animal aggressive dog by yelling at it or picking up a stick.
My mom was walking on the trail near the Yale golf course and her Chocolate Lab(on leash) was almost attacked by a curly haired mixed breed being walked off leash, I guess he was a trained fighting dog.
The animal attacking in the woods is not a result of the drug culture, some butt head probably abandoned the dog as many are abandoned in the parks of the city. Sounds like the dog was scared and just happened to be other animal aggressive.

posted by: West Rock Hiker on April 15, 2010  9:25pm

I called the New Haven Police on this same dog at about 6:30 - 7:00 PM last Thursday.  It was on Springside Ave, chasing cars, threatening people, and it chased our cat up a tree.  A friendly, sympathetic female officer did respond and last I saw it, the dog was being followed by her in her car on Springside as she waited for animal control to respond.  It is brown with white on its chest - beware, it was a scary dog.

posted by: Marcellis Robinson on April 15, 2010  9:42pm

@Ernie: You’re wrong about pit bulls being vicious by nature.  They have to be trained to fight.  My sister owns one, and he is a very nice dog. 

There is a problem with pit bulls in New Haven, Bridgeport or any other cities where a lot of poor minorities live. They mistreat the dogs (as part of hip hop culture?), and as a result the dogs take on an ugly personality.  Unfortunately, the dogs resemble their owners.

posted by: Moira on April 16, 2010  9:28am

Marcellis, agreed. Blame the deed, not the breed. Many pit bulls are mistreated, especially in urban areas. But the breed as a whole is not to blame.

Of my three dogs, two are pit bulls, and they are not vicious. In fact, they’re overly affectionate and loyal. They want to please, not kill. And they are kind and sweet with babies, toddlers, my school-age children and their friends.

I know of plenty of dogs—including pit bulls, retrievers, and shephards—who are not at all friendly toward other dogs. And let’s not forget the legions of “little dogs” on leash who have tried to attack my sweet lab/border collie mix while we’re out walking. My mother had an awful and vicious rescue Yorkie not long ago; she was forced to return him to the shelter because he thought nothing of attacking people.

Dogs are animals and, like people, are unpredictable. And some are trained to kill. But that doesn’t mean a whole breed is lethal. At the turn of the century, pit bulls were “America’s dog”—the dog most chosen as a pet by families. Even the Little Rascals’ Petey was a pit bull.

I’m very sad for Matty, and I’m glad he’ll be okay. Poor pooch! I’m sure he and Tim are traumatized. I don’t blame them. But I also don’t blame an entire breed for it.

posted by: Tim on April 16, 2010  10:01am

West Rock Hiker -

Do you know if the dog was caught? Pretty sure this is the same dog (same location for the most part, and same day/time)

posted by: anon on April 16, 2010  11:16am

Has anyone contacted the New Haven Animal shelter about this dog?  It cannot be allowed to remain in the vicinity and terrorize people and their pets.  Besides it may find a mate and start a new generation of wild coy dogs.  That would be very dangerous.

posted by: What on April 16, 2010  11:51pm

Marcellis your statement is very derogatory. Not all poor minorities are part of the Hip Hop culture. Poor minorities that are part of the hip hop culture mistreat them? There are a lot of poor(lower income) minorities that have wonderful Pit Bulls as pets, hip hop culture or not. They love their dogs just like middle and upper income “People”
The Pit Bull is one of “The” dogs of this era as was the Shepherd and Dobermans in the 70’s and 80’s. Minorities are not the only people that have them as pets, they are no longer “status dogs” as they were in the early 90’s. Ugly people come in all colors, ethnicity etc, much like your statement.  The dog in question is just a dog acting like a dog with particular bad behavior. It could have been owned by a well to do Caucasian woman for all you know.

posted by: Edward_H on April 17, 2010  9:00am

Ernie & Tim

The City of New Haven prohibits law abiding citizens from bringing a gun into a public park

Sec. 19-5.  Rules of conduct and prohibited acts.
Firearms.  It shall be unlawful for any person to bring into or have in his/her possession in any park or recreation area
iii)  Any rifle, shotgun, air gun, spring gun, slingshot, bow or other weapon in which the propelling force is gunpowder, a spring or compressed air.
http://library6.municode.com/default-now/home.htm?infobase=14668&doc_action=whatsnew

posted by: Eugene Shapiro on April 17, 2010  11:35am

Same thing happened to my dog (bitten on leg) last Thursday (4/8).  Sounds like same dog.

posted by: Consti2amend on April 17, 2010  2:02pm

When are people going to understand that THEY MUST take responsibility for their OWN SAFETY!  OR that of a LOVED ONE! 
I AM sorry for the injury to your dog, and the expense of treating it!
This “MAD DOG” is JUST THE SAME as IF it had been an attack on YOU by TWO LEGGED ANIMALS! 
If you can Morally AND legally own a firearm, please get one today!  get the proper training, and NOT JUST the NRA training used to get your permit!  Next time, they MAY INDED be two legged animals!
Good luck!

posted by: Jen on April 17, 2010  9:48pm

Tim, very glad Matty’s okay. 

Ernie: Pardon my saying so, but that’s ridiculous.  Any breed can be made vicious by poor ownership.  The Pit Bull Terrier has the misfortune to be widely bred and owned by owners who value a vicious dog.  In terms of probability, the breed most likely to attack due to genetics is the cocker spaniel. 

Consti2amend: I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a dog fight, but to shoot into one would give you a 50% chance of hitting your own dog.  I would assume the same risk applies to an encounter with a “two legged animal”. 

I am sorry for the owners who have had their pets attacked, but I’m also very sorry for the many people who own a dog of pit bull extraction and have to deal with all the fear-mongering about the breed. The problem is the owners, not the dogs.

posted by: anon on April 18, 2010  8:04am

Yes you can find a lone dog in a state park, at least you should try. Are the city or state park people conducting a search? That’s the protocol, you conduct a search, using dogs. You put out bait. This dog may go for a person next. You don’t just ignore it.

posted by: Michele on April 18, 2010  2:06pm

I sorry you and your dog were attacked.  I hope you are both recovereding. But I have to agree with the person who posted that not all pitt bulls are vicious by nature. Just like humans- I feel it’s a 50/50 crap shoot- nature vs nurture. I rescued the most loving good hearted friendly child loving pitt mix from the new haven pound. If another dog is aggressive toward him or us while we are walking, he will go into protect mode, as would any family protective dog. I’ve had pitts for many years and never was one vicious by nature. And I also agree if that attacking pitt wanted your dog dead, it would be dead. Instead of just biting, it would have ripped into his neck for “the kill”. Sticks and yelling wouldn’t have deterred him. Pepper spray and a lg stick wouldn’t be a bad idea, but guns & knives? That idea makes me very uncomfortable.

posted by: Megan on April 18, 2010  5:54pm

Thank you Jen!!! I agree with every point you made.  ANY BREED can be made viscious!  A lab can be trained and conditioned to be viscious in the hands of an irresponsible owner just like a pitbul can be gentle and loving with a responsible owner.  It is all a result of the training and experiences that it’s owner exposes him to.

posted by: Liz on April 18, 2010  10:38pm

I own two pit bulls and I am so tired of this breed being misrepresented and unfairly portrayed in the media. These are wonderful, loyal dogs who will act as they are trained to! People constantly dump dogs in large parks, West Rock, East Rock, etc., and not just bullies. One of my dogs was dumped and found her way to my backyard and I took her in, she’s been nothing but a great girl ever since.
I’ve been bit by dogs - and never by a pit bull. One of my pit bulls has been attacked by lose dogs in my neighborhood - a cocker spaniel, a chow, a scotty and two small terriers. Each time, he was the only one left with bite marks and scars and as a result is afraid of dogs he does not know.
I’m very glad this dog and owner were not more severely hurt (and as stated in another post - if this dog had been trained to fight, the damage would have been much, much worse). Until people start becoming responsible pet owners, lose and abandoned dogs of all breeds will continue to be a problem in large parks - so will over-crowded animal shelters, dog fighting and dog abuse.

posted by: john on April 18, 2010  11:29pm

@megan:

it’s absolutely true that any breed can be made vicious. but not any breed can be made with the same weight and density and, uh, killing power.

posted by: JMS on April 19, 2010  2:37am

“Any breed can be made vicious”

True. But the difference between a pit bull and (with few exceptions) and most every other breed of dog is that a pit bull is ten times more capable of doing serious damage. As a runner and cyclist who has spent a lot of time in West Rock park and other areas around New Haven where dog encounters are common I can tell you that anyone who does not draw this distinction is fooling themselves.

And now with all the recent hype and trend towards politically correct pit bull understanding, “forgiveness” and adoption as family pets I fear more and more incidents will occur. I see pit bulls in yards and on leashes in my neighborhood… being walked down the street as I walk my 8yr old son to school every day… and I can assure you I am on full alert when I see one (or on occasion two) on a leash being walked by an owner who would have absolutely no hope of controlling their dog (let alone two) if it for whatever reason decided to become aggressive. And some of the pit bulls I have seen do exhibit very aggressive behavior.

I don’t blame the breed… obviously many are trained or conditioned to be aggressive. But I am 100% convinced that this is an unfit pet for anyone to own (and so please don’t waste any energy trying to convince me otherwise) no matter how well intentioned or caring the owners may be. Despite what defenders of the breed say they are NOT “just like other dogs”. They have jaws like a bench vise and in the event of an incident there is very little anyone could do to prevent serious injury to themselves or others involved. I am happy to read that the folks (people & dog) in this story managed to come through OK. It certainly could have gone a lot worse.

JMS

PS. Edgewood Park is another spot where I run into pit bulls on and off the leash. Once while visiting the playground with my son we encountered a very aggressive pit bull being walked by a small group of 8-12yr old kids… clearly a family pet… they could barely control it between the four of them. They tied the dogs leash to a swing set and when it barked and complained they beat it with a belt (buckle end) they had brought with them. Lovely. Along with several other parents at the playground I promptly collected my son and went home.

posted by: JMS on April 19, 2010  3:00am

Jen,

“In terms of probability, the breed most likely to attack due to genetics is the cocker spaniel.”

True or not this is so completely pointless, irrelevant and a perfect example of the delusion that pit bull defenders exhibit. You are missing the point entirely. If a floppy eared cocker spaniel attacked any reasonably capable adult could stomp it into submission with ease. And the same can be said for the vast majority of other breeds of dogs that make up the most common family pets. It is in this exact manner that pit bulls ARE very different. Of course any breed can get spooked and attack… but when a pit bull attacks it is extremely difficult if not impossible to deter.

JMS

posted by: asdf on April 19, 2010  11:50am

JMS—
I agree with you 100%.

I’d be perfectly happy to see it made illegal to own one in the city.

posted by: JB on April 19, 2010  12:45pm

The reputation of pitt bulls is irrelevent in this case.  The reality is, there’s an agressive one who attacks animals living on its own in a park- or who knows where. 

Aside from that, I do care that brutal, inhumane treatment of pitts and other fighting types of breeds goes on in this city and are a part of the crime & gang culture.  To the cops: follow the dogs!  They’ll lead you to the bad guys.

posted by: Oh Boy JMS on April 19, 2010  9:39pm

So you complain about the breed and how vicious it can be, it should be banned. You witness a dog being beaten with a belt buckle and all you can do is “collect your son and leave”. Some dogs that are aggressive toward people do not trust people, have been abused by people or not properly socialized or trained. So instead of calling the police or animal control you do nothing. Had you called either the dog would have been removed from those 8-12 year old boys that obviously think corporal punishment is the way to train a dog. You are also at fault for letting someone create a monster of a dog that you think is naturally vicious. You witnessed it you ignored it. I’m not trying to convince you about the breed, just calling you out as a human that ignored the abuse of an animal. Those kids obviously have no guidance as far as pet care, that was an opportunity for the kids to be educated by someone had you indirectly intervened by calling animal control or the police.

posted by: LBD on April 21, 2010  2:50am

I’m very glad that Matty and her rescuers are all OK now.  I can understand what a traumatic experience that must have been.  (Been there myself.)  I do think the paper is incorrect that this was a ‘kill’ attempt, though.  Many dogs can be dog aggressive, and as a toy terrier owner, I’d hate to see that trait condemn a breed.  I’m just thinking that my dog might act just like this if allowed to run loose.  The back of the neck hold in particular tends to be an attempt by one dog to dominate another.  Going for the underbelly or underside of the neck is more dangerous and might suggest predatory intent.

But the lost dog’s behavior could go downhill so I hope that animal control has been able to intervene by now.

posted by: Tazwell on April 21, 2010  7:02am

I hope Matty recovers Soon! That was so unwarranted. As For a Pit Bull “Going in for the kill,” well… I’ve had worse bites from a cat! And to those who think Pit bulls can’t be “Pets,” or “Normal dogs…” Obviously you’ve never owned, babysat, or cared for one :) You’d change your tune then. I’ve met more dog aggressive Chihuahuas, and that’s not a lie.

posted by: JMS on April 21, 2010  8:10am

Ummm… actually for the record I did call the police from my cell phone in the car AFTER I removed my son from the immediate area. Clearly you are not a parent or you would know that as a general principal the safety and well being of your child comes before the safety and well being of any dog, frog, cow or pretty much any other living thing on the planet (including yourself). So please spare me the lecture on my “animal abuse apathy”. I didn’t give those kids the belt and teach them to beat their dog with it. (I assume) Their parents did.

And you are also missing my point. Clearly abuse will cause bad behavior in pit bulls… as I would expect it would with any other breed of dog. And that is a sad and awful thing I agree. But that’s not what I am getting at. My problem is that even with the most loved and nurtured pit bull there is a variable that exists with very few if any other pet dogs. Even the most friendly pet dog (of any breed) can get spooked and become aggressive for whatever reason. The difference is that when that dog is a pit bull the results are more often then not far more severe. I am at a loss to understand why anyone would willingly introduce this kind of variable into their lives and resent those who don’t understand (or care) that they are also knowingly introducing this very same variable into the lives of their neighbors and people around them. THIS is the only real apathy in this conversation.

posted by: JC on April 22, 2010  11:09am

Pitbulls are TRAINED to fight. Even fighting pits are usually NOT aggressive towards humans, just dogs.

Believe me, if a Pit, or any other dog actually “When in for the kill” that lab would NOT have a few small puncture wounds. This story is filled with mis information and undoubtedly the owner of the lab exaggerated things in his fear.

posted by: mb on April 22, 2010  6:20pm

Dog on dog “aggresion” does not equal human aggresion. ...