New Haven Independent

posted by: Morris Cove Mom on May 25, 2010  10:34am

I understand the ease of decision-making in cutting the TAG budget.  Most kids are NOT in it, so just cut it.  But the ones who ARE in it are truly benefiting from it.

I say the way in which the TAG program is run is antiquated!  We did it this way when I was younger, and in a similar program (Stamford’s Project Explore, 1984-1986).  But as of the fall of 1986, changes were made.  All 7th and 8th graders were NOT bussed from their schools.

We were put into one of three levels for every class: remedial, regular, and gifted.  So if I am gifted in math, but regular in reading, and remedial in science, that is where I study.

I don’t weigh down a class level too gifted and challenging for me, and don’t tire and bore in a class level too remedial for me.  And I don’t take a bus across town, losing out of learning my core curriculum, which still being held responsible for the homework attached to it, and the learning it on my own!

We need to overhaul the entire system, and it is really not that hard.  We may need to make places like Nathan Hale School just PK-5 to do it, and other places 6-8.  But it can be done, and it should be done…and soon.

posted by: comment on May 25, 2010  10:49am

We cannot allow Destefano/Mayo/...etc to hold us hostage.  Slashing TAG, closing libraries, and hacking the Christmas Tree are only symbolic - this will save almost nothing. 

These are scare tactics - pure and simple.  The regime refuses to consider any real cost cutting and instead smashes small popular programs while blaming the citizens who beg for tax relief.

Make your voices heard people.  Final vote is within a week.  The future of the city hangs in the balance

posted by: Private school parent on May 25, 2010  10:50am

Luckily, New Haven hosts a wide variety of fine private schools. They’ve always served as alternatives to the lousy public school system. After all, new bricks do not equate to superior teaching.

posted by: Claudia Bosch on May 25, 2010  11:02am

I do not like tax increases. But:
I do not like the tag program to be cut either.

In order to reduce the education budget the BOE decided to go after the talented and gifted students across town. No administrative cost were cut or - another example - the five school pools remained untouched! Indoor pools are really expensive! Who benefits from those five pools? All students across town?

The BOE decided to give priority to:
- swimming instead of studying
- aquatic excitement instead of academic excellence.

It is about time for us parents to get involved in the BOE budget and its “educational priorities” rather than “academic priorities”.

posted by: gener on May 25, 2010  11:14am

Completely cut TAG, please.
TAG specialist teachers? Give me a break.
$1,600,000??? What a waste of money.

posted by: Moira on May 25, 2010  11:20am

“Board member Alex Johnston called the arguments “very compelling” for saving the TAG program. But for every person who showed up to defend TAG, there’s someone who would argue that homeowners can’t afford a tax hike, he said.”

I say both! I can’t afford the tax hike, and the mayor is threatening to cut programs like TAG rather than cut the redundant, high-paying administrative positions that are rampant throughout NHPS. I’ve been outspoken against the tax hike, in favor of a 10% across the board cut in the budget. The city can do away with its vehicles for staff, for one, and keep TAG.

My eldest son, now in second grade, recently tested very high for placement in the TAG program. He is so excited to have been tested, and he hopes he can join some of his friends in the program next year. Right now, he’s excelling in school and, like Dawn Ray said of her children, TAG may offer one of the only times he may be challenged in class at times in the future—regardless of the fact that he is in a great school with excellent teachers. There was speculation as to whether he should skip a grade. Socially, it wouldn’t be good for him. TAG offers such children a chance to remain challenged and stay within the appropriate peer group.

The mayor should cut his own salary, get rid of the city vehicles, cut redundant administrators, and stop using the education of our children as a retaliatory tactic in his budget defense.

posted by: Moira on May 25, 2010  11:23am

One more thing:

@ Private School Parent,

My children transferred from a private school to NHPS in September, and the education they are receiving now is actually better than the curriculum they left behind. What’s more, most families can’t afford tuition—even with assistance—to most private schools. It’s not a realistic option for the majority of working families, at least in my neighborhood.

posted by: wilburcrossgrad on May 25, 2010  11:37am

In elementary school and middle school I was not in TAG. Every week when the majority of my peer group went to TAG I had to stay in the normal classroom. The teachers were often at a loss of what to do during this time. They couldn’t do anything important since the TAG kids would miss it. Although most of the instruction I received was excellent, this time did leave me “twiddling my thumbs”. I think it would be a much better idea to incorporate the lessons taught in TAG classrooms into the regular classroom.

Even though I supposedly didn’t make the cut for TAG, I did very well in (public) high school and am now succeeding at an elite liberal arts college. Parents, your kids will not drop out without TAG. Instead, the cohesiveness of the classroom environment and academic lessons will be enhanced.

posted by: PS Parent on May 25, 2010  11:37am

This is unfortunate and Morris Cove Mom is right - most kids aren’t in it so it is an easy target. Plus, it is seen as an extra - not necessary to worry about high-performing kids, after all they’re doing “fine”.

I will say that it seems like more kids could be included. I’ve seen some high performers left out so I don’t quite understand their admission system and the limitations of the numbers of students involved. Cutting the program won’t help though.

IF the schools directly addressed the issue of kids who need/want more than the basics the program would be unnecessary, but that isn’t the case as of yet.

Morris Cove Mom-

Question -  did all three groups stay in one classroom with the same (one) teacher working with all three levels?  It’s an interesting idea for older (self-directed) kids.

Private School Parent - It is nice to have the choice to use private schools but it isn’t an option for everyone.  Plus, the public schools SHOULD be good for students of all abilities.

posted by: new mom on May 25, 2010  11:43am

I simply do not understand New Haven. AT ALL.

It seems the City will cut everything that keeps the City vibrant, cultural, and alive.  This includes doing what’s best for the educational system.  City officials flaunt the new system that will promote education and increase learning, but then TAG is on the chopping block.  You bloody hypocrites. Do you really not see this?

Why do we stay in this city?  It is clear City officials don’t care what we think.  It is clear that they have their own agenda. It is clear they want this city to fail. It is clear more people will be leaving this City…one that used to have potential.

posted by: Under the Radar on May 25, 2010  12:26pm

TAG is a mixed blessing.  Pulling kids out of class for it is disruptive for those who remain, and bussing them across town has to add significantly to the disruption. On the other hand, for some kids it is a lifeline, and can be a pathway to college for kids who might not otherwise have been headed here. 

But, to be blunt, my son did not appear to be significantly stretched by the activities he did in TAG, nor did they seem to tailored to a kid’s specific interests (at least at the younger level), and I am not sure he would miss it hugely if it vanished. (But we are also relatively lucky in terms of what we can provide outside school—but we could certainly ask hard questions about the quality of the NHPS TAG program.)

But I have to say I was on the fence about the budget until this happened.  Services cost money, and that money has to come from somewhere.  (Personally, I am shocked every year when I discover just how LITTLE I pay in Federal taxes—this issue is not restricted to New Haven.) 

But the cuts the mayor proposed were so petty and mean-spirited (the Christmas tree!) and so clearly targeted at areas that guarantee an immediate and vocal outcry, rather than making an honest attempt at structural savings, that I found myself thinking that De Stefano really has outlived his welcome.

posted by: Scot on May 25, 2010  12:56pm

Due to the budget crisis we have now I’m in favor of making cuts to the mayor’s proposed budget.  However I think the budget cuts for education should come more from school administrative positions and by freezing capital expenditures on schools, rather than by cutting teachers or programs like this.  I’d rather live with a school with a leaky roof for another couple years than live without a program like this. Many people reading this may have been unemployed or made less money this year than previous years due to the recession (myself included).  I dont think its too much to ask well paid administrators to take a small pay reduction (even if only 3-5%) in light of the economy and the current budget crisis. We may need to cut some programs as well but I would start first with capital projects and highly paid administrators. 

I support many of the mayor’s programs, but you simply can’t spend what you dont have. Driving the city into debt (or forcing property taxes through the roof) is the worst thing we can do.

posted by: Jeff on May 25, 2010  1:39pm

Life is what you make it.

If you find the regular schools to be boring and are receiving straight A’s, then maybe you should work harder to get A+‘s.

These kids will be wishing the classes were easier when they get to college.  I graduated magna cum luade from an Ivy League school and I can’t ever recall thinking during my academic life, “Boy, I wish this class was tougher than it is.”  Life is what you make it.  To think that you know all and there is nothing else to learn is somewhat of a conceited attitude, if you ask me.

posted by: Under the Radar on May 25, 2010  2:33pm

Jeff,

I am a professor at an Ivy League college (go on, guess which one :-) , and even if you never wanted your classes to be harder, I have certainly heard these complaints from some students about some classes.

But seriously, telling an eight year old that is bored out of its mind in 3rd grade that they are responsible for making their lessons more interesting or challenging does not seem to be a reality-based solution for what, for many kids, is a real problem.  (And this was a particularly painful issue when the child in question was at an NHPS was doing drill and kill to get their kids ready for the CMTs)

That said, I am not particularly impressed with the TAG curriculum either.  Sigh.  I think Morris Cove Mom was much closer to the mark when saying that rather than yanking kids out for TAG, the classroom curriculum should be more flexible—NHPS certainly talks the talk on this, but they are not necessarily delivering on it in practice.

posted by: parent too on May 25, 2010  2:38pm

I find it ironic that the mayor makes schools his signature issue then targets the TAG program for cuts.  I’m not an expert, but it seems to me that the shortest way to improve test scores and school performance would be to attract the kids whose parents are engaged and interested in education to place their kids in New Haven schools instead of the suburbs or private schools.  Cutting the TAG program is counterproductive toward this goal.  Regardless of whether the program is even effective—this sends the wrong message to parents.

Also, I’d like to echo what others have said here.  This really looks like a cynical transparent attempt at playing politics to get the public on board with the tax increases.  Cutting popular programs that amount to very little of the total budget seems more geared toward getting people to feel the pain than it is to save costs.

posted by: JB on May 25, 2010  2:59pm

Due to the budget crisis we have now I’m in favor of making cuts to the mayor’s proposed budget.  However I think the budget cuts for education should come more from school administrative positions and by freezing capital expenditures on schools, rather than by cutting teachers or programs like this. 

^^I AGREE.  How can this be made a reality?  Is there any city or school official or board member who can explain why this shouldn’t or couldn’t happen?

posted by: Threefifths on May 25, 2010  5:06pm

posted by: Moira on May 25, 2010 12:23pm
One more thing:

@ Private School Parent,

My children transferred from a private school to NHPS in September, and the education they are receiving now is actually better than the curriculum they left behind. What’s more, most families can’t afford tuition—even with assistance—to most private schools. It’s not a realistic option for the majority of working families, at least in my neighborhood

I agree with you. In fact Private school parent Check this out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/fashion/01private.html?_r=1

posted by: Christine on May 25, 2010  7:50pm

The BOE needs to get serious about savings and look at it’s staffing levels as a place to cut first… School enrollment has decreased by 7% over the last 5 years while the number of administrators has INCREASED by 12%. Why doesn’t the BOE cut those 22 administrators to save $2.4 million and bring the administration staffing level back in line with the enrollment?

On top of that, Administrators are getting a raise of 3% on average this year… There’s another $464,000 that the city could save without hitting the classroom.

posted by: Sharon Lovett-Graff on May 25, 2010  8:19pm

If the city wants to cut tag to save money, it is only going to create new problems within the schools. I enrolled two of my children in Tag over the years because they were reading books under their desks at school. They often completed their assignments early, and had nothing to do but read. They needed more stimulation. So Tag was their only alternative for getting more out of their school day. If Tag doesn’t exist what else will take it place? I work as a public librarian for the city, and I know that my children are not alone, I meet children all over the city of New Haven that are craving more, and need more advanced educational experiences and challenges from their public school education. Tag has wonderful staff, and offers a terrific curriculim, that all children at every level, and in every school could benefit from. I wish that the Tag program could be extended to all students in New Haven, this should really be our goal, to broaden Tag, expand it, not to cut it.

posted by: 458979776666 on May 25, 2010  8:28pm

Albeit a feeble measure, cutting TAG is a step in the right direction.  We aren’t all Arizonans yet, but,  yes, we (Conn) can be.

posted by: streever on May 25, 2010  8:35pm

Wow! I’m not happy about cutting TAG. We need to make cuts, but we need to do so in a creative and sustainable manner: instead of slashing a program with incredibly admirable goals, perhaps we could put our creative, highly paid, over-abundance of administrators at NHPS to work finding a way to deliver challenging & exciting curriculum to bright young students.

I was the product of a similar school system in my earliest years: over-crowded school rooms of apathetic children with 0 discipline. Those of us who wanted to learn were simply cut out. Luckily my parents moved us to a better school system. Is that the only option that New Haven’s parents have?

People talk about how urban flight is based on any number of theories: while some are certainly plausible, I suspect it has more to do with the fact that children can not always receive a first-rate education in an environment. Perhaps NHPS could step up & find creative ways to offer programs similar to TAG: Self-directed, challenging, and academically rewarding, with less money.

I attended a TAG program in East Haddam Elementary, and I can guarantee you it did not cost 800k per year. It did not involve bussing me around town. It was held at my school, in a quiet room, with a group of other children. We were all given “archetypes” of programs of self-directed work, and then did the research & most of the work in our free times, meeting once a week for an hour for guidance & help in bringing the products to fruition.

We all managed to achieve success—no small task for small children. Perhaps New Haven could institute similar programs with community/parental volunteers or a faculty member from a local educational institution?

posted by: Thomas on May 25, 2010  9:00pm

Why pay the teacher more then other teachers? What’s the harder job teaching someone who has trouble comprehending arithmetic or chemistry or the student who finds it easier? Of course the TAG has already become bloated and expanded beyond its original purpose. Perhaps its time for Educators to come up with a new model. Can they? Their record over the past 50 years says no.

posted by: Yair on May 25, 2010  9:06pm

I very much support the continuation of New Haven’s TAG program—I think it’s very important. But this is also a good moment to recall the global issue staring us in the face: Connecticut has NO statewide Gifted and Talented funding or programming. This is an incredible scandal, connected to the equally scandalous fact that no Federal laws mandate any G&T education. Only 37 states provide some sort of G&T programming, and CT is not among them. Contrast this with the Federal requirements for special education.

Not funding Gifted and Talented education in a serious way is a form of national suicide.

posted by: TAG teacher on May 25, 2010  9:38pm

The big problem here is the Connecticut State Department of Education that mandates that districts identify their gifted and talented students, but they do NOT mandate that these identified gifted kids be SERVICED. It’s easy to cut a program that’s seen as fluff and not as essential especially when the State itself deems it “fluff” by not making it mandatory. Take a look at any of the research that has come out of the National Research Center for the Gifted and Talented located at UConn - students who are gifted are in need of as much support, both academic and emotional, as their Special Ed counterparts at the lower end of the spectrum. These kids are NOT “all right on their own” because they’re smart, they need programming tailored to their special academic needs in the same way a special ed student needs that.

posted by: Over TAGed on May 26, 2010  6:04am

I attended the Board of Education meeting along with other TAG parents Monday night.  I did not intend to speak but understood that other parents would, some encouraged by the teachers in the program, and I wanted to listen.  After the meeting I spoke with a number of people present including Board members and the children who spoke.

I left with four impressions.

First, TAG as it is currently structured should go.  I agree with the former Cross student.  The current model of pulling kids out of their school 20% of the year (1 day a week) is disruptive to them and sends the wrong message the the kids that remain in the school.  There is no reason with the potential for individualized instruction that now abounds in NHPS that heightened instruction and projects could not be assigned to these students.  At the same time they could remain connected to their school and peers in a positive way as opposed to segregating the “smart” ones from the not too smart ones.  (Note that I remain unclear what the criteria is to be TAG).  There are also many chances for well planned contests, clubs or other intra-school activities where the “gifts” of these students can be nurtured and supported.  You can look no further to the earlier portion of the meeting where New Haven celebtrated international poetry contest winners where New Haven students took numerous top prizes in a state competition.  Point is, there is another way to do TAG.

2.  I now understand that the way New Haven does TAG is unique.  In spite of its Urban status and tight budget New Haven has offered and expanded the program for years.  This is far more than many if not every other District in the State has done.  So I am not sure New Haven should be damned now, given that they have not only tried but successded in putting forth this program for years.  In a tight budget the question becomes is this program, as structured, a core function or can it be done more cost effectively?  It is not and it can.

3.  This entire episode shows me how complex the budget process is.  It is not so simple to just demand cuts or claim overstaffing or whatever.  The Board was flat funded last year and perhaps again this year.  Flat funding education means cuts plain and simple.  If you do not want cuts do not flat fund or cut the budget.

4.  I must say with all due respect, I found the TAG students to be lacking in gifts in the departments of humilty and empathy.  One of the students specifically called for funds to be shifted to students like her and away from students who need remedial assistance noting that they should simply be held back, essentially if they cannot keep up with her.  The creation of elitism at grade 2-4-and 6 which I beleive was the grades of the student speakers does not strike me as a positive program.

I was not a “TAG” student but I was an honors student who went on to a pretty good college and a post graduate degree.  I have a TAG student and I have the opinion that thumb twiddling is in TAG as well.  My TAGer is not challenged by precanned brain teasers that can be found on the internet or by dropping an egg from a height using straws to protect it (I think that was invented by the cave men and is less viable when you do it every year).  I bet if you applied the same “programs” to all students you would be surprised at who keeps the egg intact or who solves the puzzle.

School is not simply tests and categorization it is teaching the love of learning while also assisting in socialization and civil discourse and instruction.  That does not happen in silos. 

I believe that New Haven can have a TAG program with individulized supports in every school and the occasional trip or fair or bowl.  While I think it would be most cost effective for all of the TAG teachers to come back to the classroom, perhaps some could go from school to school to engage in TAG projects on some schedule that does not have the added costs of transportation and the wasted time of student movement which forces them to miss a day of school and programming every week.

I also believe that people should be very clear that the cuts in education that are proposed will lead to more program curtailments and cuts.  You cannot have it both ways, either education is a priority or it is not.  If it is then creative programming and smart budgeting is a must but old tired programs like the current structure of TAG need to be reinvented.

I find it very interesting that the most educated (by degree) members of the Board of Aldermen who have the most educational opportunity likely due to birth more than anything else are leading the charge to cut education and to cut the chance that they were granted to so many of the youth of New Haven.

posted by: is anyone listening on May 26, 2010  7:27am

Wow - the mayor wants to slash $800K from the TAG program (which has at least some value) while a private citizen easily finds 2.9 Million in excess headcount and raises.  From last night’s post;

***
The BOE needs to get serious about savings and look at it’s staffing levels as a place to cut first… School enrollment has decreased by 7% over the last 5 years while the number of administrators has INCREASED by 12%. Why doesn’t the BOE cut those 22 administrators to save $2.4 million and bring the administration staffing level back in line with the enrollment?

On top of that, Administrators are getting a raise of 3% on average this year… There’s another $464,000 that the city could save without hitting the classroom.
***

Ask yourself - do the BOE execs really deserve a raise higher than the cost of living?  Have they really delivered such an outstanding system that they should be highly compensated?  Are they so talented that they will go elsewhere if they don’t get this money?

posted by: make your voice heard on May 26, 2010  7:30am

This Thursday @ 7:00 in City Hall is the final budget vote - open to the public.  If you are concerned about spending issues this would be a good way to invest an hour or two of your life.

posted by: Trim the Fat NOT TAG on May 26, 2010  8:12am

Trim the expensive “Special Assignment” administrators NOT the successful TAG program!

East Rock Magnet School (5-8) and Worthington Hooker School have two principals each and Wilbur Cross High lists one but actually has eight principals
http://www.nhps.net/DirectoryofPrincipals

Does NHPS need four Directors of Curriculum and Instruction? Five Curriculum Supervisors? Six Directors of Early Childhood Programs? Nine Student Services Supervisors?
http://www.nhps.net/DirectorofAdministration

posted by: Save TAG on May 26, 2010  9:33am

“Over TAGed,”
...
We aren’t “Over TAGed,” we are Over Administered. If you are a NH employee how about supporting some TOP DOWN cuts that don’t affect the classroom instead of protecting the cushy status quo?

If ... you feel that the current TAG program is not a good fit for you or your child, you can always opt out.

posted by: streever on May 26, 2010  10:09am

“The BOE needs to get serious about savings and look at it’s staffing levels as a place to cut first… School enrollment has decreased by 7% over the last 5 years while the number of administrators has INCREASED by 12%. Why doesn’t the BOE cut those 22 administrators to save $2.4 million and bring the administration staffing level back in line with the enrollment?

On top of that, Administrators are getting a raise of 3% on average this year… There’s another $464,000 that the city could save without hitting the classroom. “

Right on!

posted by: Morris Cove Mom on May 26, 2010  10:39am

Wait….they are willing to keep SWIMMING, but cut TAG?  That is insane.  While I don’t like my kid not having an option of swimming in school, I prioritize studying over anything athletic or musical.

So cut the swimming, and the coaches, and the vice principals who earn $75,000+ while doing a job that a younger person would do for $45,000.

Also, I know that the Parks & Rec budget has been mutilated in the past few years, but there are 8-10 city cars in their parking lot.  Don’t employees have cars?  Pay them 35 cents per mile for city business, and sell the unused cars!  Keep 2-3 trucks, maybe.

And I’ve seen the Mayor (on more than one occasion) jump out of a black GMC Envoy with a city license plate.  Really?  He needed a big gas-guzzler to drive the 3 blocks from city hall to Cutler’s?  For shame.

And cut only the salaries of those city and BOE employees that are $75,000+.  The rest of them can’t afford the economy downturn and the tax increases any more than I can.  But I support a family of four (4) on less than $45,000 per year.  While paying my taxes on time.

My secret?  I live within my means.  I have no car payments, credit card balances, or fancy clothes or jewelry.  I eat out only occasionally, and even then I’m frugal.

Run this city like I run my budget, and cut the fat.  Or else you’ll end up with an angry uprising and people who refuse to pay their taxes.  Or can’t, like me….if you increase them anymore.  $7,000+ is quite enough for the 1/8 acre I’ve got in Morris Cove, don’t you think?

Now…how to impeach the Mayor.  Because we are all fed up with this talk of increasing taxes, coming from a man who lives on the Woodbridge border, and not in the city.

posted by: PS Parent on May 26, 2010  12:05pm

There seems to be a lot of objection to a) pulling kids out of the classroom and b) busing.  I can see the second objection simply from a cost point of view but could someone clarify for me at what grade level the busing begins?  I know the young kids aren’t bused. Teachers come to the school 1x a week for one hour of programing. Maybe it is different for older kids. I would think at some point the cost of transportation is less than having a teacher at every school.  Not sure if that is the case here.

I’m not quite sure I understand the objection to kids being pulled out of the classroom.  Am I incorrect in my understanding that other kids are taken out of their classroom for other purposes, such as remedial work and tutoring?  Why is that OK?

The real problem is that the TAG program as it is leaves some kids out who could surely benefit. Figuring out a way to do that with less is a challenge. Some have mentioned integrating the program into the classroom.

I just don’t think the classrooms, as they are structured now (26 kids and one teacher) can effectively address the spectrum of learning levels that exist and unfortunately the kids who are “at level” are left in a holding pattern waiting for the rest to catch up.  When do those kids get to learn?

posted by: S. Poole on May 26, 2010  12:13pm

TAG is a great program!  I am a graduate of the TAG Program and it does serve a very important purpose.  Tag started in the 4th grade when I was a kid.  Motivated students looked forward to the opportunity to taking the test.  It created a sense of importance around academic achievement.

TAG for K-3 should be axed.  Kids that young need to aspire to be acknowledged as talented and gifted.  TAG is earned, not handed to 5 year old’s who can read.

posted by: akb8a on May 26, 2010  1:29pm

S. Poole-

“Kids that young need to aspire to be acknowledged as talented and gifted.  TAG is earned, not handed to 5 year old’s who can read.”

Wow ... TAG doesn’t start until 2nd grade. 

How do you know “5 year olds who can read” aren’t worthy of such a program?

posted by: silly on May 26, 2010  2:41pm

...

I believe that when I was in school TAG started in kindergarten, although I didn’t really become aware of it until 3rd grade. When I didn’t get in, I was crushed. Not only did the majority of my friends leave school once a week (I believe they were bussed), but it was also a blow to my self confidence. Was I not as smart as them?

After I wasn’t enrolled in middle school my parents and I started asking questions. We both made repeated calls to the people listed under TAG on some NHPS propaganda. I found out that process (at least then) had to do with a combination of a test we took in 3rd grade that consisted of drawing pictures in boxes and later CMT scores. There you have it folks, those same parents who decry the overemphasis of CMTs are now pushing to save the TAG program which relies on those scores to choose its students.

Sure, the kids in TAG are smart, but they’re not savants. At least at my school they were mostly on the wealthier (and whiter) end of the spectrum. They came from (surprise surprise) the same demographics that traditionally do well on standardized tests.

In response to the person who asked why it was OK for remedial students to be taken out of class as opposed to gifted students: the gifted students can grasp the material presented, the remedial students might lack certain skills that would make it difficult for them to get anything out of the lesson. The best option for everyone would be to incorporated the beneficial lessons from the TAG program into the traditional classroom—and to make it available to any child who wants the challenge.

Differentiating between who is smart and who isn’t at the elementary school and middle school levels is silly.  It breeds arrogance in those deemed “gifted” and low self confidence in those who aren’t.

posted by: akb8a on May 26, 2010  3:46pm

Silly - I think everyone knows why remedial students are taken out of the classroom but the question is why that isn’t seen as “differentiating between who is smart and who isn’t”. 

I’ve heard other complaints from kids (and their parents) who have not been included in this program.  The process/testing etc is mysterious and can appear random and unfair.  I agree. The combination of CMTs and the creativity test (that’s what the pictures in boxes is) may not be perfect.

This is why I think more kids need to be included (those who want and can live up to the challenge) although I still question the wisdom of asking teachers to add something else to their already overburdened classrooms.

posted by: JMS on May 27, 2010  3:57am

Moira,

“The mayor should cut his own salary, get rid of the city vehicles, cut redundant administrators, and stop using the education of our children as a retaliatory tactic in his budget defense.”

Well said.

I was a TAG kid back in the Rhoda Spear days. Some of the best and most lasting academic memories (and retention) I have from my New Haven Public School Education are from TAG. Mythology… art… film making. Entirely new subjects made available to me through TAG. Now my son is a TAG kid and I know for a fact that it has renewed his motivation and sparked greater interest towards his school experience. Before TAG he was bored and complaining regularly.

I believe in New Haven Public Schools as an option to private schools because programs like TAG ensure that both ends of the spectrum of special academic needs are being met. Because of programs like TAG even if I had the financial ability (like many I do not) to choose private school for my child honestly I would stay with public schools for this an many other reasons. I hope the mayor and Superintendent Mayo can be made to see the value of this excellent program.

JMS

posted by: 4SURE on May 27, 2010  7:50am

The is a difficult issue. It can go either way.
I have a child that was never part of TAG program. Many of her friends were selected for TAG for math during elementary school grades. My daughter is currently a sophomore & doing exceptional in school. She is taking the same Math Algebra II that the TAG kids are currently on. So I guess my point is was TAG really worth it? She is using the same math book that her Hamden Hall friend is using & getting better grades that this former TAG student… 
I guess it works for some kids however there must be other alternatives like allowing TAG students to stay in their school & do higher level work with higher grade students so they can be challenged.

posted by: Thomas on May 27, 2010  1:52pm

wilburcrossgrad posted the following;

“In elementary school and middle school I was not in TAG. Every week when the majority of my peer group went to TAG I had to stay in the normal classroom. The teachers were often at a loss of what to do during this time. They couldn’t do anything important since the TAG kids would miss it. Although most of the instruction I received was excellent, this time did leave me “twiddling my thumbs”. I think it would be a much better idea to incorporate the lessons taught in TAG classrooms into the regular classroom.”

This shows the type of stupidity the education “industry” is stuck in. Perhaps it is the teachers union has fostered this lack of thought process. Here’s an idea; When those TAG students leave the room, those “left behind” can catch up or get some extra help. If the TAG students are so brilliant they’ll have no problem keeping up with material they miss.

posted by: G/T parent on June 1, 2010  8:40am

Students with advanced academic skills need to be advanced in their core subject areas, not just brought together once a week for enrichment. The buses are expensive and the current TAG program lets neighborhood schools off the hook from accommodating their gifted learners. New Haven needs to fully commit to educating all students with unique learning needs, including gifted students, on a full-time basis. Yes, save money by getting rid of the buses to take kids to a once-a-week TAG program. Instead, commit to providing advanced learning opportunities in every school and possibly a full-time magnet school for our most advanced students. Provide a real alternative to the private schools.