New Haven Independent

posted by: Great News! on September 29, 2010  7:34am

Great news. The city can’t afford to police itself, so young people are deprived of the right to socialize. Then the students get blamed for the acts of gangsters. Then the cops get more and more overtime and bring back the beat down posse. Wonderful, just wonderful, Mr Mayor. The TEA PARTY is looking better all the time.

posted by: elmcityguy on September 29, 2010  7:37am

Static only pays $900 a year for a prime downtown commercial spot?

posted by: Elected state offical on September 29, 2010  7:42am

The key word is enforcements for DUI and drunken disorderly. Make some arrests and the behavior will change. To blame the patrons behavior on the bar owner is “off key.“There are many intoxicated patrons that put other peoples lives in danger.

posted by: Pot calling the Kettle Black? on September 29, 2010  7:47am

I hate to say this but, a lot of us have been harassed by loud bikes for years with no means of recourse. If cops made it a rule to harass loud bikers like Maloney, I don’t really see a problem. Call it reparation.

posted by: JAK on September 29, 2010  7:52am

Riding around with a death mask on, thankfully is going to attract immediate attention from police.  Its not Halloween, dude.  Law and order downtown is what is needed now.

posted by: deb Cancel on September 29, 2010  8:00am

Why is it that these night club are only paying $900 a year in taxes to the city and causing so much problems including lives.  Yet we home owners are paying the quadruplet amount and are striving and working hard to keep our homes. Mayor you need to shut them down, it is not worth your time our’s especially any more money that the city can’t afford to pay, I dislike when they say costing tax payers money, because that’s not cool.  I think now is the time to clean up the city even if we loose revenue but guess what lives willbe saved and more travelers would consider still coming to New Haven.  These night clubs are no example to our society having a good time is not getting into no foam bath that is a embarrassment, I personally think colleges students should rethink the way they should party.  As for the cops, well let me see, they should also think before they talk, they supposed to protect the community but theres evidently a problem if they’re in a middle of a crack down and are just randomly targeting, that’s not policing that’s called police harrassment and what happenend to Maloney is called police brutality that cop should be fired, he is not a safe cop to have on the force he can cost the NHPD a lot of money in court.

posted by: Zulika Oliver-Maloney on September 29, 2010  8:09am

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
...Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode? -By Langston Hughes

Unfortunately, We as Americans are nowhere near realizing so many of our founding father’s dream of equality and a right to dignity. Sorry, Tony that those we pay to “Protect and Serve…...each and everyone of us!!!!” failed sooo miserably. It is disgraceful and unacceptable that this should happen to anyone and that our dreams continue to be…......“deferred”. Thanks for having the courage to do your part in the quest for dignified treatment for ALL!

posted by: cecilia protoc on September 29, 2010  8:18am

This craziness has been going on downtown since all these clubs opened,  There were brawls everywhere on the weekends.  Every bar should have a off duty cop and who is going to police the bartenders who serve minors and kids who arrive downtown drunk.  Then we have the New Haven cops who are animals.  They have such a attitude problem, they add to the chaos.  The reason why people don,t help the cops or give information is simple, they don,t trust them.  Its your word against us. When I was younger you trusted a officer, he was there to help you.  You don,t come to a scene with a pitchfork,because the person is going to put up a fight.  You try to treat people with respect.  I am not ignorant to the fact that some of these punks need a punch But you don,t control violence with violence..

posted by: Gene Debs on September 29, 2010  8:27am

Elected state official: Despite all the recent hoopla, the downtown bar closing problem is by no means new. Fights, gunshots, assaults, etc. have been going on in this area for a long long time.  If your solution, “Make some arrests and the behavior will change” were sufficient, this area would be a pastoral paradise.  Thus, on the chance that you really are an elected state official, I counsel you that a little depth in though would be more useful than your knee-jerk response. But it would cost you some votes.

posted by: Christina on September 29, 2010  8:41am

‘The jobs the clubs provide are not significant or valuable’ said our esteemed Mayor, John DeStefano.

You bet they are to the people that have them in an economy with 10% unemployment, and probably much more in New Haven. They will not have them for long with this Mayor. Thank you for looking after all the little people.

posted by: Anon on September 29, 2010  8:49am

Sorry this happened to you Tone, but why were you disillusioned? Did you really think everyone before you who has filed complaints against the police were liars and crackpots? You think you’re the only good boy around who has been harassed by police? Consider yourself lucky, you weren’t arrested on some fake PD report. And that IS what they would have done if no one else was around.

As for the muffler, that’s a joke. One of the loudest mufflers in town is on a certain Lt’s souped up Harley.

posted by: Destefano needs to go on September 29, 2010  8:54am

Why does the mayor blame everyone else for the problems that happen in downtown on the weekends? He has been the mayor for over 18 years now. It is time for him to be held accountable and only the voters can do something.

I don’t understand how he can say that he wants to create a entertainment district and tax business that provide entertainment services. Why did he have a school built in the middle of an entertainment district?

The mayor, the police chief, and the police union need to figure out a way to have more officers patrolling the Crown street area on the weekends without incurring a $15,000 charge for each weekend. The city is already broke enough from it’s spending policies. If all 3 parties are not willing to compromise on a solution then they are part of the problem. As a tax payer/resident/voter changes need to occur in New Haven.

In a couple of weeks the Crown St. area will return to status quo once the army of police are not on every street corner.

posted by: visitor on September 29, 2010  8:56am

Of course, if the officer did what was alleged that is just wrong. However, Mr. Maloney really should not be surprised if that skull mask attracts attention, I mean come on!!!!!

posted by: William Kurtz on September 29, 2010  9:03am

Surely that $900 isn’t the complete tax bill for the building, which the club probably rents, but for the ‘property’—furniture, glassware, computers, etc.  Right?

[Correct.]

posted by: Joe Townie on September 29, 2010  9:09am

I’m not excusing the treatment he rec’d from the police.
And I’m not saying this fellow is a lawbreaker or criminal.

But come on…

He and his motorcycle gang (uh, “club”) all gather together downtown. In front of the number one trouble club Static. And he’s looking like this with the skull getup. And oh yeah…he’s got a gun with him.

Who do you think the police SHOULD be stopping while they’re on club duty? Who are the people they should be
checking out??

Maybe the ones who are bringing guns to the clubs downtown???

Wrong guy at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong thing.

posted by: Jp on September 29, 2010  9:43am

The $900 is personal property tax which is in addition to real-estate tax. bars get taxed on everything they own from ice machines to lighting. $900 is still way to low but it’s a self reporting state.

posted by: friend of "The Presidents Bike Club" on September 29, 2010  9:57am

There seems to be a lot of focus paid to the mask worn by Mr.Maloney, the alternative is a custom helmet with a dragon on it and furthermore beyond the superficial is the fundamental rights that we all should protect and defend.If I don’t protect yours then when mine are violated what should I expect???

posted by: East Rock Guy on September 29, 2010  9:58am

This guy needs to know his surroundings…..it was all over the news that police would be ramping up enforcement given the recent shootouts downtown.  The “death” mask is going to attract unwanted attention from a police force that is already on alert for possible disruptive behaviors.  As a New Haven resident, I don’t take issue with the police response as I strongly support them in their efforts to get control of the “entertainment” district.  I’m not excusing police brutality (if that was the case)and this guy seems like a good citizen but drastic measures need to be taken in order to show people that the city will not tolerate the things that have been going on.  And if strict rule enforcement turns off some people from visiting downtown…..so be it.

posted by: Anon on September 29, 2010  10:02am

I started compiling a list of the owners of the actual real estate on Crown, the landlords to these clubs.

It is hard because some of the street addresses are not in the online vision appraisal service database, probably because certain buildings span more than one street address, but so far, I am not finding out of town landlords. So far, I see one prominent local attorney owns a lot of the real estate on crown.

So, whoever said the landlords are out of town didn’t get it right.

This is an established lawyer and firm right here in New Haven, and I’d like to know what he thinks of the legacy of stabbings and murders in and outside the clubs on Crown Street. And if the clubs in his properties aren’t contributing, (I don’t know because I haven’t finished researching it) why he remains silent overall.

posted by: [commenter] on September 29, 2010  10:16am

Having watched “Big Tone” and his “club” (aka gang) race past my house in Westville at high speeds on occasion…  Armed motorcyclists terrorizing neighborhoods by racing on residential streets, forcing us to keep our children out of our front yards deserve not one bit of sympathy. The fact that a 47 year old is heading up this gang of overgrown adolescents is just sad.  ...

posted by: Angela Corbett on September 29, 2010  10:34am

I believe that there needs to be more police presence in the Crown street Club District especially between 11p - 3 am. However, the police should not provoke law abiding citizens who are merely consumers in the area.  In this article Mr. Maloney was merely parking his bike as he recounts. Arent police officers responsible for their conduct as well? This officer should be held accountable for what clearly is a violation. My sincere hope as a resident of New Haven is that Chief Limon gets his police force in order. They already have an issue of morale in the dept and this issue of how they treat the public is adding more fuel to the fire.

posted by: Vinny G on September 29, 2010  10:44am

The police officer that did this was on an adrenalin rush with power hiding behind the badge.  This officer is a bad apple if he acted as noted.  However there are always two side of every story, only one side has been told. 
With all that has happened downtown you are just asking for trouble going down there with attention grabbing like the bike and mask.

posted by: jp on September 29, 2010  10:50am

Anon, I don’t think anyone is surprised to hear that lorico owns lorico tower.

posted by: no booze on September 29, 2010  10:51am

Make the entertainment zone alcohol-free and watch the trouble disappear!

posted by: local on September 29, 2010  10:55am

I love how much attention the club district is getting, when every single night in Newhallville/Dixwell/Hill/Fair Haven/etc. is like a warzone.

Save the club kids, let the poor people suffer. Great job New Haven.

posted by: Sally on September 29, 2010  11:21am

Just would like to say what they did to Tony was uncalled for.  I went to school with him over 35 years ago and he is a good guy.  I also think there is racial facts going on here and that is just wrong.  I hope for Tony’s sake they take care of this.  Do you think the crimnals that did the shooting would be going back to the bar so soon after they shot someone no I don’t think so.  Tony I am here for you and good luck.

posted by: DingDong on September 29, 2010  11:27am

Sue the cops.  They shouldn’t go around violating your rights. I’m personally no fan of all the motorbikes going through the neighborhoods, but that doesn’t mean I don’t feel for you on this one.  You’ve got a right to wear whatever mask you want to and not get arrested by the cops.

posted by: blue dog dem on September 29, 2010  11:31am

This “targeted enforcement” is no better than a shakedown of the club owners.  Pay more and we’ll be more lenient and if you don’t agree to the new tax, then expect us to drive away all your customers.

Anon is right.  The owners of the buildings should be paying higher taxes, not the businesses.  There is no point in being in business to pay taxes and not to make a profit.  The landlord will pass the tax onto the businesses via rent, but they should be alloted by space, i.e., three businesses and maybe apartments for one location.

Just another example of a friend of JDS getting a break.

posted by: cba on September 29, 2010  11:54am

what type of human wear a skull mask while operating a motor vehicle?

posted by: Morris Cove Mom on September 29, 2010  12:10pm

I will take Maloney and his whole gang over the thousands of idiotic, drunken children who are toting guns and hate for one another.  I am so glad I moved out of downtown (I lived on the corner of Orange and Crown), and now live next to Tweed Airport.  Finally, some peace and quiet!

posted by: NOT A GANG on September 29, 2010  1:22pm

In the last year what the presidents motorcycle club has done in there community helped two family’s last christmas giving lots of gift’s to one that could not afford them donating money to the other family that had a fire raising money food and water for the haitian relief found sponsored a youth baseball team in new haven and for the last several year’s been involved in the ride to provide organized by a new have police officer

posted by: DISGUSTED on September 29, 2010  1:33pm

I AGREE WITH CHRISTINA. DESTEFANO IS TARGETTING WORKING PEOPLE BECAUSE NHPD CANT KEEP CRIME OFF THE STREETS. PUNISH THE INNOCENT. IS THE EASY THING TO DO.

posted by: Bill Saunders on September 29, 2010  2:03pm

Unfortunately, the innocent always bear the brunt of these targeted enforcement efforts, as the criminals go about their business elsewhere.

posted by: CINZIA on September 29, 2010  2:52pm

I’M CURIOUS ABOUT ZONING ISSUES WITH THESE CLUBS IN REGARDS TO A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL HOUSING NOW DOWNTOWN AS WELL AS THE NEW ARTS SCHOOL.THERE ARE NOISE ORDINANCES IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS , OR PERHAPS ZONING REGS NEED TO BE REVISED IN REGARDS TO HOW MANY OF THESE CLUBS IN ONE AREA. JUST LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS AND NOT TRYING TO DEPRIVE THE WELL BEHAVED YOUNG A FUN NIGHT OUT.========C.WESTVILLE

posted by: Mark M. on September 29, 2010  2:53pm

To everybody that puts the blame on Maloney for wearing certain attire needs to check themselves. I bet if Maloney was a tranny in a dress and the police ASSAULTED, DAMANGED personal property, performed an ILLEGAL SEARCH and unlawfully DETAINED him for “her” attire this would be national news. There was nothing tasteless about his mask. I wear a similar one one when ride bicycles in New Haven (especially during the winter). And anybody that knows about protective masks will agree that it’s hard to NOT find one with some sort of decorative design. I have also been harassed for attire that I once chose to wear. Everybody thinks that a kid in spikes and died hair is trouble. There was never anything “troubling” about me. If Maloney’s description of his life is accurate, we share a lot of the same things. I have done volunteer work for years and I have NEVER been arrested for anything. The only trouble with the law I have had (minus a few parking tickets) was when I was unfairly harassed. If somebody looks suspicious, fine. Investigate. But that can be done by talking to the person…pretend to engage them in conversation. It’s called investigative police work. Don’t be he schoolyard bully and break someone’s glasses. Go over there, talk to him and, if you feel like you need to, issue him a ticket for his (probably) illegal exhaust. That should be the end of it.

posted by: daughter of Mr.Maloney on September 29, 2010  2:56pm

first off i would like to say that the “Presidents” are not a gang at all , its a club ; i dont think its a bad thing that my father finally made a complaint that could actually get noticed by people that the New Haven Police did wrong . yes he had a mask on in a bad area but that gives the police no right to snatch the mask and his glasses off and through the whole process they dont give any reason for searching his pockets . my father is one of the most respectful and giving guy’s i’ve met . honestly im not saying that just because hes my father . im upst because i had to get up in the middle of the night to help him try to fix his glasses with a gosh darn magnifying glass .

posted by: Prospect on September 29, 2010  2:56pm

I have been reading some of these comments. So what he was wearing a skull mask. It does not mean for the police to harass him. It is worn to protest his face from air and pebbles and it looks nice. I see people walking around wearing things that they should not and does that mean the police should pull them over and harass them, break their glasses and use vulgar language. I also understand that the police chief is trying to cut down on crime downtown but what about everywhere else in New Haven. While your beefing up secretary downtown beef it up around the entire city. Think people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by: Ben Berkowitz on September 29, 2010  3:40pm

Disgusting!

A total lack of listening by the majority of the police force and city hall has led to a reactive police presence that is taking advantage of regular citizens.

Agreed that the clubs are not valuable, but you should have handled that a long time ago John.

posted by: JohnNH on September 29, 2010  4:19pm

“Take away the clubs” the mayor says…real smart…
  MAYORS CHECKLIST

OK- minimal areas to Shop….....CHECK
OK- no auditorium for events (concerts etc) ....CHECK
OK- no Sports venues…..........CHECK
OK- no clubs…..................PENDING
OK- change concerts on the green to earlier during the HEAT of the day, instead of the past where people came from all over to sit under the stars….....CHECK

Congrats mayor for operation NO NIGHTLIFE..

What city do you know that doesn’t have clubs? I am thinking there is a small percentage of people who do dinner and then the theater. so what is there to do in New Haven at night other than EAT and an expensive show playing at the Shubert? So you are now going to punish the law abiding citizens who want to dress up and go out and dance or listen to the music..etc. So OK let people go elsewhere then and follow the crowds that go to Bridgeport or Hartford for concerts etc. This city does things soooo backwards…like the concerts on the green…they used to be at night where people from all over came and sat under the stars after a warm summer day , some with candlelight, etc. So then they decided lets have it earlier in the HEAT of the day and have people sit under the sun and watch the concerts..LOL I know I am going off on a limb but mark my words…take the clubs away>>lol see the city IMPLODE even faster…

AGAIN AWESOME JOB MAYOR!!!!

posted by: Cedarhillresident on September 29, 2010  4:48pm

Hmmm OK show of force, clapping down the beat down posse way. I get what they are doing. And agree with Ben this is a reactive. We need proactive in this city really bad and I tell every cop I meet. Broken windows people.

But with that said I would think that officers would no which people are gangs and which are clubs big difference. But who am to to say.

But as a citizen of this city THIS CITY I am not so upset as some. But I have had something similar happen to a family member and it was totally disturbing and pissed me off to no end. But in the back of my head it was done and the person was realsed right away as above. And so when I see this happen I think it is a preventive of the unknowen. The cops just don’t know who people are. and they are dam’ed if they do and dam’ed if they don’t. We want crime gone right. well somethings gotta give what are the do-able suggestions people

posted by: Cedarhillresident on September 29, 2010  4:50pm

someone had posted this video FB not to long ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9-NcunsKc

posted by: Life29 on September 29, 2010  6:23pm

I am for protecting people and keeping a look out for the safety of others. It’s unfortunate that cops don’t bring a sense of peace for me. They are supposed to protect and serve, but it seems like they are against so many of us. This is supposed to be a free country? I wouldn’t wear a mask like that personally, but that man has every right to do so. Regardless no cop should be allowed to touch and assault a person like that nor should they have any right to speak to another human being in such a negative way. I hate the violence that has been happening downtown lately, I am happy for cops that sincerely do their jobs and am sicken by the profiling that it appears that most of them do. The chief or whatever he is not going to get back to this man. I feel that he will never go up against his own even if a cop is wrong.

posted by: NHresident on September 29, 2010  7:07pm

The Police department recently graduated at least 40 new officers. Why are not those 40 new officers on a 6PM-2AM or 7PM-3AM shift? Those officers should be assigned downtown on the party nights which will save the city a lot of money.
The alleged shooters are from New Haven and supposedly rivals from certain areas of the city. Why is there not a swarm of police to crackdown on the neighborhood beefs? A guy wearing a death mask legally parking his vehicle IN FRONT OF THE POLICE is not a threat. The city needs the “entertainment district” otherwise this city would be deserted and the little tax dollars we see will continue to flow into other towns.
POLICE THE INNER CITY where the problems originate. Lets see some police presence in the Ville the Hill and Fair Haven, Dixwell, and the Dwight neighborhood. A young boy was shot on the corner of Dixwell and Division not to long ago. There was an outcry for something to be done. Well everyday you can ride through West Division St to Dixwell/Division and see the drug dealers swarmed around the four corners. Where are the Police? The police command is marching to the tune of the Mayor and after 18 years the mayor still can’t get it through his head that he has no idea what it takes to police this city. Getting rid of the nightlife in New Haven is not the answer.

posted by: Threefifths on September 29, 2010  7:16pm

Be very careful of what you pro police people are asking for this crack down is noting more than money quotas for the cit coffins.Look at what happening In New York.

The NYPD Tapes
NYPD Quotas leading to Civil Rights Violations, New Lawsuit SaysBy Graham Rayman, Mon., Jun. 7 2010 @ 3:04PM Categories: Graham Rayman, The NYPD Tapes

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/06/nypd_quotas_lea.php

The NYPD Tapes
NYPD Gives Brooklyn Man Trespassing Charge For Ducking Under an Awning During Today’s Rainstorm!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/09/nypd_gives_broo.php

And for te good cops who come forward,Tis is what they do to them.

NYPD Tapes 4: The WhistleBlower, Adrian Schoolcraft
He wanted his bosses to know about NYPD misconduct. So they put him in a mental ward
A A A Comments (28) By Graham Rayman Tuesday, Jun 15 2010

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-06-15/news/adrian-school-craft-nypd-tapes-whistleblower/

Beware what you ask for.

posted by: Some Random Thoughts on September 29, 2010  7:28pm

Its been 10 or 11 days since the incident. Only now does the Mayor surface for a photo op that looks like something out of ‘Men in Black’. Why. Because the NHPD were so scared they’re men had shot innocent bystanders and would get a lawsuit to really bankrupt the city.

From other storys it looks like one of the cops hit the shooter from behind. The shooter then turned around and let of a magazine load. Maybe NHPD werent so clever opening fire with 15,000 people around.

The Mayor is now trying to close down night life downtown. Hes always been a big promotor for how great a cultural center New Haven is. One of his great achievements. Why reverse now. Is Rick Levin twisting his arm as the bad publicity will effect Yale.

DeStefanos comments on the worth of jobs at the clubs is beyond belief. People need jobs to support they’re families. He is completely out of touch.

Maloney is a 47 year old Amtrak engineer. He leads a motorcycle gang called the Presidents, has carried a large calliber gun for 20 years, and wears a Haloween mask. Sure, hes got civil rights. Only thing is I’m never going to ride the train again.

Anyone who goes downtown New Haven after dark has only themselves to blame for what misfortune they get.

If theres no law and order none of us have any civil rights. DeStefano has not protected the citizens of New Haven. The city has had more police chiefs in the last 10 years than banana republics have presidents.

I’m really pissed.

posted by: Clu(b)less New Haven on September 29, 2010  7:52pm

The mayors comment’s shouldn’t come as a suprise to anyone. The handwritting was on the wall long ago, its called gentrification and its a natural process. One by one the clubs will close, it will not happen overnight, but it will happen just as it did in the late 90’s The throngs of thousands that descend on New Haven every weekend will gravitate elsewhere, and along with them they will take the college students, the 20 somethings and hip urbanites who fill area resturants and bars. The streets will be empty, the police presence paid for by the clubs will no longer be visable and the aura of safety will come into question. This will stop the 30,40 somethings from coming to dine in New Haven because they wont feel safe walking to their cars on an empty street. The hundreds of apartments that sit above and next to these clubs will start becoming vacant as these hip urbanites and 20 somethings pick a more vibrant city to live in and the real estate market will take a hit. And at the end of it all, New Haven will still have it what it had when this all started back in 2010, black youth shooting black youth all over the city. But the difference is they will be shooting at you to because after all they know they can run the city, afterall they have the power, not you! they got an entire district closed. ”

posted by: Realla Da Terror on September 29, 2010  8:40pm

BIG TONE WAS TOTALLY VIOLATED AND DISRESPECT AS A CRIMINAL BY COPS WHO WERE ABUSING THERE POWER. I WITNESS THE INCIDENT AND FELT BAD I HAD ASKED HIM TO MEET ME DOWN THERE. REAL CRIMINALS DOWN THERE AND THE POLICE WERE MESSING WIT A CLUB OUT OF NEW HAVEN WHO DO COMMUNITY EVENTS AND ARE POSITIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I COULDN’T BELIEVE THE HIT HIM AND PULLED OFF HIS MASK AND PUT HIM IN CUFFS IN A MATTER OF 5 SECONDS AFTER SURROUNDING US. VERY DISRESPECTFUL AND UNNECCESSARY BADGE NUMBER ... WAS ONE OF THE ONES WHO PARTOOK IN THE VIOLATION. AND HE GOT A TICKET FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HE WASN’T EVEN REVVING HIS ENGINE. THAT TICKET WAS LIKE A MAKE UP CALL IN BASKETBALL BY A REFEREE WHO KNEW HIS WAS WRONG. I HOPE HE GETS JUSTICE.  Clearly THIS WAS BECAUSE THEY CAN’T CATCH REAL CRIMINALS THEY GO AFTER COLLEGE KIDS AND WORKING MEN SUCH AS MYSELF. I ALSO RECIEVED A TICKET THAT NIGHT NOTHING..

posted by: Another Anon on September 29, 2010  10:21pm

Yes yes yes.
he was within his rights to wear what he pleases and go where he pleases and so on.

But there is also common sense.

The area is under increased scrutiny, the situation is tense, the violence unchecked.

Wearing that costume and bringing a gun to an already volatile situation and then surprise when something happens?

A little less provocation and common sense would have avoided all this.

posted by: roomforaview on September 29, 2010  10:33pm

Extra security is needed for the downtown clubs. If the Mayor can get the clubs to ante up to pay their fair share of police costs for the scene they create, then that is a very good thing. And anyone who cruises through the nightclub strip in a death mask, on a dragon bike, with mufflers blasting wants to be noticed. Well the cops noticed him ... as they should anyone presenting like that in the wake of the club-related shootings. Whether they went too far in checking him out, I don’t know.

posted by: The Professor on September 30, 2010  12:43am

I would encourage all of those who are trashing the Mayor and the Police Department’s crime prevention and control efficacy to take a quick look at this:
http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/police/statistics.asp

Note the trendlines: 16,215 crimes reported in 1994, and down to 9,785 by 2000.  Since 2000, the number of crimes has pretty much held steady at 9,750±500 per year. 

You can only attribute so much of that decline on the decline of the crack epidemic; a lot of that decline is directly attributable to efforts by the DeStefano administration to find workable crime prevention strategies, including the most effective crime prevention strategy known to man: economic empowerment.

It’s really easy to get upset when things go wrong, but nobody has produced any evidence that supports the idea that things would go wrong at a lower rate were someone else mayor.  Put another way, I challenge any of these folks to show me a shred of evidence that someone else would do a better job of combating crime.

Seriously, even some of the Mayor’s strongest opponents on the BoA have been relatively silent here, probably because they understand that there is only so much that one can realistically do to fight crime in New Haven and the current administration is coming pretty close to doing it.  I don’t see Jorge Perez or Andrea Jackson-Brooks getting up and screaming that this is some hallmark of failed leadership, probably because they honestly don’t think they could do much better were they in John DeStefano’s shoes.

As for the way the tax system is set up, someone has suggested that “Anon is right.  The owners of the buildings should be paying higher taxes, not the businesses.  There is no point in being in business to pay taxes and not to make a profit.  The landlord will pass the tax onto the businesses via rent, but they should be alloted by space, i.e., three businesses and maybe apartments for one location.”

In theory that’s absolutely correct.  That’s why, as a renter, I also got hit with property tax increases.  But I’m not sure that’s the solution here.  The problem is that not all businesses are created equal insofar as the risks they bring to the downtown area.  Even among businesses that are open late at night, places like Static and Gotham attract crowds that have demonstrated a far greater propensity to engage in violent behavior than places like Anchor Bar or the Owl Shop.

Given the different clienteles and associated differential levels of risk, it seems totally fair to tax them at different rates—why should I subsidize keeping the patrons at Gotham in line when I go to have a beer at Richter’s?

Finally, as for “Big Tone’s” situation, if his account of the events that occurred is correct, that’s totally unacceptable.  I’ve said that I think the Mayor and Police Department are doing a good job, but that doesn’t mean that they’re perfect; unfortunately people make mistakes and do things that they shouldn’t.  And when those mistakes happen, people need to own up to them.

That said, Mr. Maloney showed incredibly poor judgment wearing that skull face wrap literally blocks away from where a massive shooting had just taken place.  If I’m a cop and I see that, I’m detaining the guy, making him take the mask off, and making sure he’s not a known gang member.  Now, it sounds like the police in this situation went way over the line, and they should be held accountable for that.  But this was a preventable situation—he easily could’ve taken the mask off when entering downtown but he chose to keep it on for aesthetic effect.

Again, I want to make it absolutely clear that at the end of the day, the police should be held accountable, but also that at the end of the day, people need to exercise common sense when they’re downtown on weekend nights, especially in light of recent events.

posted by: Guest on September 30, 2010  1:19am

Wearing the mask may not have been wise but he shouldn’t of been beat down for it.  It only takes one dirty cop to bring down an entire department and from what it seems, there are quite a few of them here in New Haven.

posted by: mike murphy on September 30, 2010  2:12am

I love how the gang and thug members downtown are all of a sudden being blamed on the students and the clubs. No one cares about the thousands of taxpayer dollars that are being spent on an operation that statistics have shown time and time again will do nothing. All the endeavor is doing is wasting money so the mayor can save face and pretend he has any idea what he is doing. He knows the statistics but all this publicity and “show of force” makes him look good. If we are gonna complain about everything lets do it right

posted by: President Supporter on September 30, 2010  2:19am

Oh,where to begin:
1. City officials gathered to tout the success of Operation Nightlife, are you serious? Making more than 2 dozen arrests on MINOR violations, issuing 84 tickets & costing taxpayers $15,000- is considered a success?- Was the total amount of tickets fees given more than $15k?- highly doubted - 1/2 will plead not guilty.
2.The comment made by Joe Townie saying,“He & his motorcycle gang (uh,“club”)“is uh, demeaning. I suggest not judging a book by its cover & putting a negative connotation on a positive group of ladies & gentlemen that are not only successful individuals but, volunteers in their communities.
2.5 In addition to guns downtown, Isn’t it one’s Constitutional right to be able to bear arms? the fact that he was legally carrying the gun & was not attempting to enter a bar/ club has nothing to do with “club duty”. Had he been attempting to enter a bar- maybe.
3. I like the mask, but what does it have to do w/Maloney be treated as he was, why is it relevant? It’s sold in Motorsports stores in NH county & online. I believe officers couldn’t see who was under the mask & assumed it was a “younger” person who could be bullied or harassed; however, once it was removed & Maloney cooperated the officers realized that they messed up & the only thing left to was to give a ticket for a loud muffler in order to cover their asses.
4. Loud muffler- have you ever heard the car stereos driving around downtown? What?
5.Mayor DeStefano is questioning the value of a the club district- Really? So i think clubs should close for a weekend & lets see how much revenue is lost-Pretty sure once you see the effect you will change your mind on the “value”. No more bus tickets bought, No more paid public parking, Less revenue to be taxed from ALL business,etc… PLUS, can you put a value on ones enjoyment?
5.5“foam nights” & dollar drink specials don’t promote drunkenness-Its marketing. Its the same thing as the $1menu @ McDonald’s. Its not promoting obesity.  Each individual is responsible for their own choices made & actions.

Good luck “Big Tone” & request a copy of surveillance tapes. Most cities now have them on their downtown street traffic signals- before it “disappears” or is erased!

posted by: steveh0607 on September 30, 2010  8:22am

A liquor license is given to a person, not a place, and they must be renewed every year. Therefore it’s very much possible to get rid of these clubs, or force them to become civilized.

The way it’s done, according to the liquor control statutes, is for the city to put a referendum on the ballot at the next citywide election asking voters to ban Cafe Permits. Once banned they could not be renewed (there is no grandfathering when it comes to liquor permits). Thus, clubs would be forced to seek restaurant permits which require hot food to be served and a kitchen to be kept. This would effectively change their business model.

In conjunction, the city could revise zoning requiring restaurants to have at least 50% of their floor area devoted to restaurant use where patrons are served hot food by waiters.

Also, size of the businesses could be limited as well and zoning relief could be required giving the Board of Zoning Appeals the chance to place conditions on any approval. This would allow for businesses to still offer dancing but it would eliminate the out-of-control behavior we now see.

I believe this is the only sure-fire way to solve the problem.

posted by: amedat on September 30, 2010  9:37am

The behavior of some New Haven police officers, particularly the young hot heads in downtown New Haven, is truly bothersome.  Is this type of behavior a technique reinforced in their training or is this more of a personal trait that is tolerated by police leadership?  Can someone speak to this? 

In my personal experience, the minute you ask them a question they begin swearing, and threatening you with a night in jail. They know charges will eventually be dropped but also realize the consequences for an individual.  Notwithstanding what we may think of Mr. Maloney’s personal choices, beyond the issue with his bike, he broke no laws.  We are heading down a slippery slope when we condone the hharassmentof any citizen based on a subjective test applied by some young buck with a gun, a badge and the full indemnification of the City of New Haven. Maybe if more people complained, these complaints will begin to accumulate in their files and will be taken into consideration when they seek future promotions.  What else can you do when the Chief, the Mayor and the union condones this type of behavior?

I am in no way discounting the work of the many diligent and respectful officers on the New Haven force, however, there has to be some standard by which police can engage citizens without acting like bullies on steroids.

posted by: robn on September 30, 2010  10:00am

Loud motorcycle “clubs” should be fined if they cause a ruckus. I think the whole mask thing is stupid but then again, if being stupid in one way or another was against the law, the majority of the population would be in jail.

posted by: 1stLady on September 30, 2010  11:26am

I am a law bidding college graduate and a tax payer. This situation is very unfortunate.

Mr Maloney did’t commit a crime. He seemed to be enjoying his motorcycle. The mask was just unexpected.  However it is sad for an officer who takes a oath to protect people and then turn around and assault a person. Its just wrong! This is for : Commenter, Joe Townie, who label the club as a gang.

I ride motorcycles and deal with a number of motorcycle CLUBS in CT. These clubs are made up of working class people who earn honest living and they provide a number of community events.  They include police officers, nurses, doctors, educators, business owners and all types people color and races. So before you start to label it as a gang, Know what you are speaking about. How about educating your self. When was the last time you gave back or even came out to mentor a young teen in the community?

Mayor is doing what he thinks is best. However closing downtown district don’t make sense . The city needs all the money we can get! Besides we have to pay the Mayor for his services.

We have to all work together as a team to make New Haven better!

posted by: Rob Smuts on September 30, 2010  1:33pm

This discussion thread is already a day old and 56 comments deep so I don’t know how many people will read this, but I want to give my thoughts on one issue that came up in this article in this comment and maybe later get to two that have been threads through all the articles on the nightlife issues.  As with all my comments, I really value feedback.

The specific issue in this article is the alleged treatment of Mr. Maloney.  Actual and/or perceived police brutality is toxic to effective policing.  That said, I don’t know that this is an example of police brutality.  The summer I turned 18, I made (what I still assert was) a legal right on red and then a quick left.  A state trooper saw this from a distance and decided to pull me over.  I had the radio jacked all the way up and didn’t hear the siren or notice his lights immediately – I’m glad I didn’t have a (legal) mask on or a (legally carried) handgun because by the time he got my attention and I pulled over (on a quiet suburban street not in the middle of a chaotic situation) the trooper was pissed enough as it was.  I had an expensive lesson about paying attention to my surroundings even if I hadn’t done anything wrong (as I thought at the time)… except not respond promptly to a police officer’s orders (which I have since realized is something rather important for all involved).  Maybe it should be but an 18 year old setting the volume on the radio isn’t illegal, though headphones and straight-pipes on motorcycles are – for a reason.  I hate to speculate on what happened here without having all the facts, but if the excessively loud pipes on Mr. Maloney’s motorcycle meant that he ignored an officer’s orders, and that officer could not see his face and possibly had reason to believe he was armed (which he was), then reasonable use-of-force policies could easily justify what happened.  But that is speculation without all the facts.

I don’t want to try Mr. Maloney in the press any more than I want to try the police officer – it’s possible that either was wrong or both or neither since as Vinny G said, “there are two sides to every story,” and the best way to lance the boil of actual or perceived brutality is for Mr. Maloney to make a complaint if he feels there is substance to his concerns.  There will be those that do not trust Internal Affairs to police the police, and there will be those that don’t trust the Civilian Review Board to audit Internal Affairs, and there will be those that don’t trust the media to check whether IA and the CRB did their job, or trust that civil rights attorneys can get a fair shake suing for those failed by the police, IA, the CRB and the media, etc.  Cynicism isn’t without grounds as any student of history knows that plenty of people have been failed by ever step in the system, but let’s at least start at the beginning.  “The system” may or may not work as well as it should, but it definitely will not work if it is not used.

- Rob Smuts, C of NH CAO

posted by: Anon on September 30, 2010  2:43pm

Well Tone, consider yourself lucky. These kids had a video camera rolling picture and sound and were still arrested on fake charges and treated to several threats and F Bombs by NHPD.

That arrest record is going to be lifelong and increase their chances of being re arrested, even if the charges are dropped.

Nice to have that power over people, if your a loser who never had any until he put on a uniform. What a pathetic way to get a sense of self worth. These guys don’t have the integrity to work at McDonalds, but here they are, with incredible amounts of power.

See the link: http://www.quchronicle.com/2010/09/video-senior-arrested-after-filming-another-students-arrest/

posted by: Anon on September 30, 2010  2:57pm

For those arguing that a little common sense would have avoided the issue. Yeah, I agree, for those who know the cops are loose cannons, common sense is not to give them an excuse to violate your rights.

But another side of me says, that this is America and any systemic pattern of violating our rights should be opposed vigorously.

There are people who say that some American cartoonists shouldn’t have addressed radical islam in their cartoons because now they are living underground with assumed names after getting put on death lists with prices on their heads.

Is that the road we want to go down? Having to give in bit by bit all the time? Accommodate people we KNOW are wrong?

You know what? It may be “common sense” to avoid being targeted for doing what Americans have a right to do, exercise their lawful freedoms, but is it smart? Is it brave? Is it at all American?

These cops are out of line. If it were an isolated incident, it would be different, but it’s not. It is biz as usual, and they were even worse to a couple of Quinnipiac students. See this link: http://www.quchronicle.com/2010/09/video-senior-arrested-after-filming-another-students-arrest/

So, have the guts to tell NHPD that this isn’t good enough, and if they have to fire the new chief, require officers to have college degrees, pass more vigorous pysch. testing, and get their training from Aussie, or New Zealand, or Canadian police, who know how to be civilized, then by golly, they will just have to do it. Darn it, we deserve better than this garbage. The courts are clogged with fraud upon fraud by PD. 

American police have a notorious reputation among 1st world countries for their disrespectful, dishonest truly ignorant police departments. They are the dregs and they join a police culture that is the dregs, known around the world for being the dregs. America deserves better and can produce better. They are a disgrace.

posted by: kk on September 30, 2010  4:21pm

sorry to hear what happened to you tone good luck with your complaint. it is funny how i can go out of state were clubs have five times as many people at the clubs than we do and they have less cpos than we do. If you push people they will push back and thats what happens with these new haven ball buster cops. They need more training on how to handle big crowds and how to identify problem persons.

posted by: Threefifths on September 30, 2010  5:22pm

posted by: Rob Smuts on September 30, 2010 1:33pm

The summer I turned 18, I made (what I still assert was) a legal right on red and then a quick left.  A state trooper saw this from a distance and decided to pull me over.  I had the radio jacked all the way up and didn’t hear the siren or notice his lights immediately – I’m glad I didn’t have a (legal) mask on or a (legally carried) handgun because by the time he got my attention and I pulled over (on a quiet suburban street not in the middle of a chaotic situation) the trooper was pissed enough as it was.  I had an expensive lesson about paying

Did the state trooper cuss at you? I have met you before and you are a causasian and Mr.Maloney looks latino or mix race,We know for a fact that people of color get stop more by the police then causasian.

Police in major U.S. cities stop and question more than a million people each year – a sharply higher number than just a few years ago. Most are black and Hispanic men. Many are frisked, and nearly all are innocent of any crime, according to figures gathered by The Associated Press.

And the numbers are rising at the same time crime rates are dropping.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/stop-and-frisk-police-sto_n_314509.html

I bet you if you was riding that bike with a mask they would not have put you in the same postion.So give me a break.This stop was base on color.

but if the excessively loud pipes on Mr. Maloney’s motorcycle meant that he ignored an officer’s orders, and that officer could not see his face and possibly had reason to believe he was armed (which he was), then reasonable use-of-force policies could easily justify what happened.  But that is speculation without all the facts

You right.That same thing happen to Sean Bell.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/nyregion/28bell.html?ref=sean_bell

And it even happens to black cops.

Fellow cops clobbered me after wife called 911 for help vs. thugs, NYPD Officer Larry Jackson claims

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/26/2010-08-26_sez_wife_called_for_help_vs_thugs_then_fellow_officers_stormed_house_clubbed_him.html

and the best way to lance the boil of actual or perceived brutality is for Mr. Maloney to make a complaint if he feels there is substance to his concerns.  There will be those that do not trust Internal Affairs to police the police, and there will be those that don’t trust the Civilian Review Board to audit Internal Affairs, and there will be those that don’t trust the media to check whether IA and the CRB did their job, or trust that civil rights attorneys can get a fair shake suing for those failed by the police, IA, the CRB and the media, etc.

You have the power to look into to what happenand get back to Mr.Maloney.And you need to look into this one also.

[VIDEO] Senior arrested after filming another student’s arrest

http://www.quchronicle.com/2010/09/video-senior-arrested-after-filming-another-students-arrest/

Cynicism isn’t without grounds as any student of history knows that plenty of people have been failed by ever step in the system, but let’s at least start at the beginning.  “The system” may or may not work as well as it should, but it definitely will not work if it is not used.

The system works for the privilege and we know who they are take a look in the mirror and you will see who the privilege is.

posted by: Anon on September 30, 2010  5:31pm

Thanks for the unusually frank post Rob, and I hear you on this incident, but you are asking a lot of individuals pursuing complaints for what is chronic and systemic, sorry, but it is.

See this link, for instance. This happened this week: http://www.quchronicle.com/2010/09/video-senior-arrested-after-filming-another-students-arrest/

You also should know that NHPD and Yale PD too are as a matter of policy denying audio and video evidence exists when it does, such as onboard video on a Yale PD car, dispatch audio recordings and so on. I hear of another case every month without even trying. When the video or audio comes out, it almost always contradicts police.

Individual IA, CRB, civil rights lawsuits are not addressing systemic, chronic practices that are not lawful.

You may not choose to see a crisis in this, but it is one. Those that are victimized this way lose a great deal. If you are at all sincere in your post, and you do sound like you are, (you have sounded sincere before though) you need to do something.

The city of course defends every lawsuit, when perhaps it should start spearheading some hefty reforms, reforms that could even spread nationwide. New Haven could have what it takes to do something original and groundbreaking if it wants to.

posted by: Bill Saunders on September 30, 2010  5:46pm

Rob,

As someone who has gone down to Union Station to obtain the paperwork necessary to file a complaint, I will say that the attendant officer guarding the forms was anything but cooperative, demanding information and details about the nature of the complaint, that no victimized citizen should endure to engage the process. 

I do not know if this is case anymore, but as a point of perceived neutrality, those forms should be readily available at City Hall and On-line so intimidation such as this does not happen, otherwise it’s too much like fox guarding fowl.

posted by: Simple Simon on September 30, 2010  8:39pm

The Professor

Sorry, but your stats were prepared by the NHPD and I just don’t believe them. They begin in 1994. Are their none BJ (Before Johnny). Just go to the adjacent story where a student tried to film another student being arrested outside Toads Place and you will see why. I am disgusted at the behavior of the cops. Why am I forced to pay this mans paycheck.

This is a serious civil libertys issue. The student was legally using his cell phone to shoot an arrest. I have no complaints about the way the officers were arresting the other student, but the way they intimidated the photographer is well beyond what should be expected in a supposedly law abiding democracy. These young people will never be the same. I think they have been alienated by their treatment by NHPD.

I have been told that this video was blocked all day to city employees on their web site. What an admission of guilt.

As Hamlet said in the famous Shakespear play. Something is rotten in the house of Denmark.

As to DeStefano being responsible for these problems it does not matter. He is paid as Mayor to handle curve balls. As Truman said THE BUCK STOPS HERE. The problem in New Haven is the buck never stops and its always dumped on some innocent bystander.

I urge all students to take there cell phones downtown and use them to shhot whatever is going on. Its the toss of a coin. You could help a decent cop with an arrest or you couLd finger one thats rotten to the core.

posted by: A.Tolnay on September 30, 2010  9:43pm

Hey All…I try to stay away I really really do…but here I go again..I can appreciate Mr. Maloney throwing in how he coaches and never got a ticket and all that. I’ll congratulate you for living life the way ...uh….I guess we should?  But hey I’ll give you props for doing what most decent folks do as well….but lets talk

    1.The week after a major shootout in
    the downtown area…
    2.within a block of where it happened
    3.with the most cops downtown in a very long time
    4.with the media both on television and the newspapers talking about what efforts were going to be in place that weekend
    5.you come downtown with a full face mask then you park your motorcycle (even if you “slow rolled it” you didn’t get a speeding ticket did you?)
    6. failed to mention you were illegally parked and when you were asked by cops to move it you didn’t did you? (maybe cause your such a good guy you felt you didnt have to? (who knows im just wondering not accusing)
    7. Then didn’t immediately notify cops you were carrying until after. hey im a cop and on the occasions I have been pulled over on my bike or car the first thing I do is notify the Officer that I’m carrying a pistol and that I’m licensed. Last week suspects were shooting at the police and public..Oh do if you can…excuse the police if they consider a masked individual who is carrying a pistol a matter of urgency will you?
    And listen I have the same exact mask (I do)it is pretty cool I agree but I doubt you wear that all the time it wasnt exactly freezing and if it was a helmet does the same if not offers a lot more protection…but my point…maybe possibly, just maybe that night wasn’t the “best” night to sport the mask??? I dont know just like everyone else here..just expressing MY view on all this.

posted by: daughter of Maloney on September 30, 2010  11:09pm

response to “A.Tolnay” . just wondering , have you seen the article because you have seemed to miss a whole lot . my dad was not given a ticket for parking or speeding , he was told he was not moving fast enough to get off the motorcycle after parking and his firearm was no where near him , when he was asked for his registration thats when he gave the cop his permit and told the cop it was on the back of his bike . honestly my father does not where the mask alot . i hope you dont jump to conclusions when you make your reports for your job .

posted by: The Professor on October 1, 2010  5:56am

A few things:

Much ado has been made about what happened to the QU students who were attempting to film a raid and arrest.  Solely on the basis of the tape, it seems that NHPD’s actions in that circumstance were completely and totally unacceptable.  Perhaps something will come to light later on that will justify their actions, but based on what we can see on that tape, NHPD looks really awful in that situation.

However, that is VERY different from this situation.  In that case, it was 100% clear that the kid with the video camera posed zero threat to the officers involved in the situation.  Furthermore, the student was performing a very important and desirable task when he was filming—he was, in effect, policing the police.  We WANT people to do that because we WANT accountability.

Again, I’m not saying that what happened to Mr. Maloney is right, but it’s a huge stretch to equate it with what happened to the QU student.  A guy on a motorcycle wearing a DEATH MASK looks suspicious.  He looks like someone who could cause problems or who could be a threat to public safety and order. 

Now, it just so happens that in this case he wasn’t, but imagine a counterfactual scenario where someone else rides through town wearing a similar mask, then pulls out a gun, kills two people on the street, and rides off.  Imagine that several police officers saw him ride in and aren’t able to successfully pursue him.  What do you think the reaction would be?  I have to say that I fully expect that all the people who are trashing the police and the administration now would be taking to these same comment boards saying things like, “I just don’t understand how the police couldn’t even ask the guy to take his mask off and get a look at him,” or “clearly the police are too lazy to do even the most cursory investigation.”  I really doubt that many people would rise to the defense of the police saying, “well, they must’ve been protecting this guy’s rights.”

Or, say that instead of Mr. Maloney, the person behind the mask had been a wanted criminal and this stop had led to his apprehension.  People would probably be applauding the police and wouldn’t really care much about the treatment thy gave the guy.

The point is, we tend to make attributions of blame and responsibility with 20/20 hindsight (and I suppose in many cases a latent and irrational hatred of John DeStefano, but IDe-Stefanoink I’m going to change any of THOSE minds here).  Instead of doing that, we should ask ourselves what a reasonable person with police training would do in that situation.  I submit that such a person would probably stop the masked marauder, but that a reasonable person wouldn’t subject him to the abusive treatment that he got. 

Furthermore, Maloney was not engaged in any socially beneficial activity when this happened.  He should have known full well the risks of driving around the scene of a shootout wearing a DEATH MASK, and he should have known that while it might be fun for him, it provided absolutely no benefit to society (and indeed might create discomfort and lead to incidents like the one that took place). 

So to equate what happened to him (abusive treatment at the hands of police while engaging in behavior that provided no benefit to society) with what happened to the QU student (abusive treatment at the hands of police while engaging in behavior that is essential to a healthy and accountable local government) is not right. 

Threefifths,

It appears we meet again, and it appears you’re 100% wrong again.  I, clearly minority man, have had multiple encounters with the New Haven Police.  I have never felt subjected to any sort of discrimination on account of my race.  And I’m sure that there are many other people in New Haven who can say the same thing. 

What makes this particularly interesting to me is that I actually have markedly darker skin than Mr. Maloney.

So clearly they’re not pulling people over based entirely on race.  There must be some other factor here.  I wonder what that might be…could it perhaps be that stupid skull mask?  I mean seriously, that’s what it comes down to—he wore a stupid mask that invited the police to pull him over.  If I drive around smoking tobacco out of a bong in my car, I’m probably going to get pulled over because it looks suspicious.  If I drive around with a realistic-looking BB gun pointed out my window, not only will I get pulled over, I’m also pretty likely to get shot at by the police. 

The point is, we expect the police to do the best they can under conditions of limited information.  So they use proxies (do you know what that word means?) to make split second decisions. When something looks suspicious, they’ll investigate, and that’s the way it should be.

As for your statistic about the differential rates of detention, I agree that it’s a problem, but I think you oversimplify it.  For example, I think that if you were to look at the list of people arrested on charges of embezzlement, securities fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, and other more white-collar crimes, you’d see that they are overwhelmingly white.  Does that mean that the police and FBI disproportionally target white people for white-collar crime enforcement?  Doubtful. 

Instead, it means that by and large, people of different socioeconomic classes commit different sorts of crimes, and we unfortunately live in a society where being a minority correlates strongly with low socioeconomic status.  And the reason that people committing white-collar crimes are detained for patdown searches more often that people committing street crimes is, I think, a lot less nefarious (again, I hope these words aren’t too big for you) than you take it to be. 

The differential detention/stop rate comes down to this: how does someone look like an embezzler?  how does someone look like the leader of a mail fraud ring?  You can’t look like someone fitting into those categories the same way you can “look like someone who’s downtown to cause trouble” when you wear a stupid mask with a skull on it a couple of blocks away from the site of a shootout.  Or the same way you can “look like a gang member” when you wear gang colors and flash gang signs.

Yes, there are some racists out there.  But I think that by and large you overestimate the importance of outright racism and underestimate the importance of structural forces that are really difficult to break.

posted by: The Professor on October 1, 2010  8:54am

Well, Simple Simon, funny you should bring up the possibility of looking for more stats; I decided to do some more looking and found the Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics database and it still looks pretty good for DeStefano. (If you you don’t believe me, you can find them yourself at this website: http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/JurisbyJuris.cfm?NoVariables=Y&CFID=11287118&CFTOKEN=16372031  Unfortunately the website is a little tough to navigate and I couldn’t find a permalink to the spreadsheet, but it’s all there.)

Here’s what I found: Under John Daniels’s administration, the lowest “violent crime rate” (a measure which is better than raw numbers because it adjusts for population size) was 2,053.4.  That came during his last year in office.  Under DeStefano, the violent crime rate has trended downward and has in fact exceeded Daniels’s record low only twice, in 1994 and 1996 (although in both of those years, the violent crime rate was still lower than it was in any other year of Daniels’s administration).  In fact, under John DeStefano, the city has seen its two lowest-violent-crime years since 1985, and those took place relatively recently: in 2004 and 2005, the violent crime rates were 753 and 222.3, respectively.  Unfortunately the statistics cut off in 2008, and the last few years were not as good (1844.7 in 2007 and 1789.4 in 2008), but even those numbers are better than they were under Daniels and better than they were when DeStefano came into office.

If you look at the crime stats for any other category, the story is the same.  Aggravated assault, property crime, burglary, larceny, and yes, even motor vehicle theft rates under DeStefano have been lower than they were under Daniels.

Not only that, but you can’t even pull the “DeStefano’s had 18 years, Daniels had four” card—if you look at the first four years of DeStefano’s administration, you’ll see that he STILL does better than Daniels in every category.

Now, if you have some evidence that the data that the Department of Justice has on file is flawed, by all means, I invite you to present it here.  But at the end of the day, if we accept the DOJ data—and there is no reason not to—we must conclude that crime has consistently been lower under DeStefano than it was under Daniels or even DiLeto (I’ve been ignoring DiLeto because I really doubt that the anti-DeStefano forces lionize him the same way they do Daniels). 

As for the video camera—I addressed that in my prior post.  What happened to that student is, in fact, wrong, and there should be accountability.  The last thing the city needs right now is to spend taxpayer dollars on a legal battle that came as a result of hotheaded actions by a couple of cops on a power trip.

However, I should note again that what happened to the student is VERY different from what happened to Mr. Maloney; I discussed that in my prior post as well.

Now, if you have some compelling piece of evidence that

posted by: Threefifths on October 1, 2010  9:22am

posted by: A.Tolnay on September 30, 2010 9:43pm

And listen I have the same exact mask (I do)it is pretty cool I agree but I doubt you wear that all the time it wasnt exactly freezing and if it was a helmet does the same if not offers a lot more protection…but my point…maybe possibly, just maybe that night wasn’t the “best” night to sport the mask??? I dont know just like everyone else here..just expressing MY view on all this

You are right your view.But in his view he has the right to wear the mask and by law he has a right to wear this mask that he got from a store legal. Now if he was going into a bank with that mask on than you could say that he would have a problem.How about Halloween comming up.Are you and others going to say a person can not ride a bike with a mask?

posted by: Threefifths on October 1, 2010  10:07am

posted by: The Professor on October 1, 2010 5:56am

Threefifths,

It appears we meet again, and it appears you’re 100% wrong again.  I, clearly minority man, have had multiple encounters with the New Haven Police.  I have never felt subjected to any sort of discrimination on account of my race.  And I’m sure that there are many other people in New Haven who can say the same thing. 

you may have been lucking that you number has not come up yet.But the Majority Rules and that is a prove fact that across the nation people of color are stop more by the police.

Driving While Black

http://www.counterpunch.org/drivingblack.html

Did you also know that this is a problem in the UK.

Blacks bear brunt of rise in stop and search

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6202149.ece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jul/21/police-fail-black-communities-racism

I know people of color who have never been stop,but as they told me it will happen one day.

So to equate what happened to him (abusive treatment at the hands of police while engaging in behavior that provided no benefit to society) with what happened to the QU student (abusive treatment at the hands of police while engaging in behavior that is essential to a healthy and accountable local government) is not right

you’re 100% wrong again. Abusive treatment at the hands of police to anyone is a abusive treatment.In fact poilce patrol different in urban areas than the suburbs.I know this because I know a police officer who patrols in
Greenwich and he told me say the work thing to one of these residents or even think about trying some abusive and you will be looking for another job.

Furthermore, Maloney was not engaged in any socially beneficial activity when this happened.  He should have known full well the risks of driving around the scene of a shootout wearing a DEATH MASK, and he should have known that while it might be fun for him, it provided absolutely no benefit to society (and indeed might create discomfort and lead to incidents like the one that took place). 

So with halloween comming are you saying that a person can not ride a bike with a death mask. And by the wear the shoot out was not on the day he had the death mask on.

The differential detention/stop rate comes down to this: how does someone look like an embezzler?  how does someone look like the leader of a mail fraud ring?  You can’t look like someone fitting into those categories the same way you can “look like someone who’s downtown to cause trouble” when you wear a stupid mask with a skull on it a couple of blocks away from the site of a shootout.  Or the same way you can “look like a gang member” when you wear gang colors and flash gang signs.

You call your self the The Professor.I would never take your class.Tell me what is gang colors,What is gang signs.Freemasonry flash signs,  Collage fraternities and sororities flash signs. Would you call them gangs signs so what is you point.

Bottom line what law did he break by wearing the death mask and if he did the store that he got it from the ownner should be arrested for sell them.

posted by: A.Tolnay on October 1, 2010  10:17am

To Daughter: Its good to see you defend your dad (commendable) and please make sure you understand I dont jump to conclusions on my reports because I’m not jaded by family ties.  And I did read the article maybe you should take another look, and I apologize if I offended you as I said that’s your Dad so I can understand and appreciate your feelings.  In the article Mr. maloney felt the need to explain how he was only travelling 10 miles an hour and quote “I’m literally slow rolling” well that’s where my reference to the speeding ticket came from..I mean I dont see how his “slow roll” had anything to do with why the police had interaction with him. (that’s just me but just wanted to show I did read the article) So I’ll leave off with, your Dad was addressed because of where he parked and from my understanding his being uncooperative at the start of the interaction (and of course I could be wrong only my view) But as you said yourself he doesn’t wear the mask all the time…my only point was that MAYBE it was the wrong place at the wrong time to wear it that night. like I said I have the mask also but I just don’t see myself making the call to wear it that night considering what had happened the week earlier.
    I believe I have met your dad a couple of times and does seem like a very nice guy. I believe it was an unfortunate incident that happened but just wanted to say that people shouldn’t be so quick to judge the actions of the police all the time I believe it is very biased and unfair..(and isn’t that what were always being accused of?) I hope that it all ends well..Thank you and again I applaud your support for your Dad.

posted by: A.Tolnay on October 1, 2010  10:30am

To Anon: OOF I was just about to sign off but I just happened to breeze over your dribble !!...
well Anon by your bashing of our profession and the people who serve it you seem almost Freudian (if you will) in maybe your own dislike of whatever chosen profession your involved in…that said “arrested on fake charges”? my my maybe your a lawyer? a Judge? One of the authors of the Ct general statutes Book? or just self proclaimed Maven? ummm I go with the last choice however as for the criminal record well those are things that maybe people should take into consideration when they put themselves in certain situations I mean sometimes people hve no control over the situations they find themselves in but thats a whole different story
...

posted by: maloneysdefense on October 1, 2010  4:50pm

c’mon… why are a few of you actually blaming Maloney.. all he did was ride in with a couple other members of his group/gang/club/friends..what ever.. wearing a skull mask (I have seen many bikers wearing this… nothing new, sorry) even if his bike was loud, even if he were parked ilegally, even if they were in front of the worst bar in town.. if he did nothing wrong there is no reason for office John Wayne ...to shout “Get the **** off the bike” and grab at his face… and no reason to hassle someone who is only guilty of wearing a wind mask with a skull painting. this really looks like a case of some cop ...r thinking.. “oh man, this guy is on a cool bike, has a cool face mask on, definetly has more confidence in himself than do.. ...” there’s no reason for a cop to act like ... protect and serve guys…

posted by: Rissa F. on October 1, 2010  9:07pm

I know Big Tone personally and I cant believe that such a nice person got to brutally harassed by police, who are supposed to be protecting decent hard working people such as Tony. It really saddens me that police now days can’t keep order over the criminals and murderers in this city but yet they have the time to embarrass and shame people just going about their business. They need to be on the look out for the people who are doing dirt instead of profiling people because of their attire. Not every biker is a misfit hoodlum looking for trouble. It really is a shame that things of this nature still happen. I just hope that one day soon police will actually go after the people who deserve it and not just the innocent bystanders who may just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

posted by: Anon on October 2, 2010  1:24pm

A. Tolnay,

Your comments posted on this story:

http://www.quchronicle.com/2010/09/video-senior-arrested-after-filming-another-students-arrest/

... are yet another example of what reformers are talking about.

It also is an example of how tight a grip so many cops have on their state of denial.

It also demonstrates that reform has to be demanded by everyone in the community because it won’t come from within.

It also demonstrates that more educational requirements should be one of the chief reforms.

posted by: Anon on October 2, 2010  1:48pm

Notice that the clubs that are really committed to music and local musicians, and to live music don’t have these problems, with the exception of Toads, at times. And Toads doesn’t have shootouts and murders.

I’d like to know why Destefano doesn’t have a lick of influence with these landlords. What is at stake here? Is it really impossible for them to make a buck on any other kind of tenant? Is it really that hard to find tenants in some other kind of business?

What is going on with the flow of money down on Crown?

What’s the relationship between the mayor and this set of property owners? Do they talk? Can they talk?

What about the property owners and business owners being negatively affected, do they talk to these landlords, and what kind of reception do they get when they try?

At one time there was a porn theater on Crown. (Some of these property owning families have been there for decades) Why is it not an embarrassment for the owner of that building to take his profits and donate some to, say, some scholarship fund at Quinnipiac or something? How does that money become respectable by finding itself in an envelope to a scholarship fund, for a semi hypothetical scenario?

While we allocate up to half a million dollars to put the street practically under martial law to deal with shootouts, are these landlords donating to that cause? Are they spending any of their money addressing the crime ridden turf wars in this city? or does that not get you your name in gilt letters somewhere?

posted by: Anon on October 2, 2010  2:17pm

“themselves in certain situations I mean sometimes people hve no control over the situations they find themselves in but thats a whole different story
... ”

What’s the dot, dot, dot? I want to know what this brilliant emissary from NHPD said that was so bad you had to edit it out. We should know what our cops think is an appropriate post in their efforts at guarding the public image of their department.

posted by: Anonymous on October 2, 2010  3:03pm

Yeah right Tolnay, cops are always right, except when they are messing with you, which they did, big time, didn’t they.

Ever get that $5.1 million settlement?

You’re hypocritical.

posted by: Anon on October 2, 2010  8:30pm

To the PROFESSOR:

... you made a blaring, completely false statement at the bottom of your crime stat rundown for new haven:

“Now, if you have some evidence that the data that the Department of Justice has on file is flawed, by all means, I invite you to present it here.  But at the end of the day, if we accept the DOJ data—and there is no reason not to—we must conclude that crime has consistently been lower under DeStefanhan it was under Daniels or even DiLeto”

I accept your “invitation” to point out your flaws. Those numbers are not from the DOJ. New Haven has not submitted numbers to DOJ for all the years you cite because New Haven didn’t have accurate numbers.

They flaunt their numbers around town, and dupe residents with them, but they didn’t submit them to DOJ and the reason they didn’t submit them to the DOJ is you can get in trouble for submitting unaudited, flawed numbers to the DOJ and get kicked out of their program for it, like Philadelphia did.

...
And what of audited numbers? Even the DOJ admits they are flawed in many ways and that homcide numbers are the most reliable and go down from there.

The city is safer now than it was two decades ago and every knows that because it is obvious, but it’s not great still. End of story.

posted by: robn on October 3, 2010  11:42am

Wasn’t there and don’t know all the circumstances, but if one rides around on a bad-ass bike with a bad-ass mask, one is drawing attention to oneself as a bad-ass. Writing that, I could be accused of treating Mr. Maloney like a rape victim (i.e. she asked for it because of the way she was dressed), but its really not the same thing. Mr. Maloney was costumed as an aggressor in a post cime scene environment that the city was clearly trying to calm down. Not that I’m apologizing for possible police brutality but this story definitely has to be filed under the “what was he thinking” category.

posted by: stephen on October 3, 2010  11:31pm

Iwork with tony at amtrak.what happen was wrong.the police dept. is to serve and protect no matter the color or race you are.not committing any crime they could have walk up to tony and ask him how he was doing.they would have saw he was a nice person looking for no trouble.the police have no right to put there hands on you or search you with cause.tony good article,but if it was me i would go visit the chief of police,and ask him why no response and ask him if that officer was talk too.maybe the officer could be there to say sorry.that would be the proper way.

posted by: A.Tolnay on October 4, 2010  3:56pm

My Goodness !!! LOL To Maloneydefense:
WELL SAID. ...

And to the ANONYOUS: your funny really..let’s get it straight. 1. It wasn’t cops messing with me it was the city 2. it wasn’t 5.1 million get your face outta the comics and get your facts straight. 3. ... why dont all you hereos of society stop hiding behind “anonymous” names. STAND UP STRAIGHT>>>LIKE SIX O’CLOCK holmes..