New Haven Independent

posted by: Greg on February 15, 2010  6:32pm

This is so freaking exciting.

Wind power is cool, and I love the way that the turbines look.

posted by: Chris O on February 15, 2010  7:15pm

This is visually great from the Q bridge and the River. A welcome addition to what might become the river street esplanade.

posted by: Pioneer on February 15, 2010  7:44pm

I’m glad to hear that this project went through well, it’ll for sure be a pleasant site in New Haven.

posted by: robn on February 15, 2010  7:49pm

cool

whats the payback time?

posted by: Claudia Herrera on February 15, 2010  10:44pm

exciting news!!!

posted by: Brian Hornby on February 15, 2010  11:39pm

This is fantastic! The next step is when all of the wind tower parts say “Made in America” Seems like we still have some catching up to do with the rest of the world.

posted by: Eric on February 16, 2010  12:18am

the turbine, blades, hardware, etc are assembled in Barre, VT by Northern Power Systems.

Already, the 1 section (of three) rises above the press building and is clearly visible from the Q, Ferry St, and Tomlinson Bridges.

Stop by tomorrow by noontime to see the action!

15 James Street, across from Criscoluo Park, at Chapel St.

Renewable energy works… and it’s better to “catch up” than to deny the fact that it DOES “pay for itself” and do nothing!

This is the brainchild of Phoenix Press’ CEO Brian Driscoll, and in no way, shape, or form is a project or incarnation of New Haven or it’s (supportive) leadership. Phoenix Press is taking on the financial burden of the project (with some help of grants), and it will begin to pay for itself when the first electric bill is reduced! :)

posted by: lance on February 16, 2010  2:02am

I don’t like the idea of taxpayers being forced to subsidize this.

posted by: nhfirefly on February 16, 2010  9:56am

I don’t like being dependent on foreign oil.So there’s the rub.

posted by: fedupwithliberals on February 16, 2010  10:02am

I just can’t wait to hear about how much the neighbors will love the noise of those rotors as well as the corpses of dead birds littering the grounds!

posted by: Walt on February 16, 2010  10:21am

Exciting? 

Yes! I’ ll certainly take a look.

Story looks slanted though.

The public should know exactly how much cash Phoenix Press is putting up,  what all the tax money involved is, in specific dollars,  both now and for operations;  how much Phoenix’s power bill is now and how much they expect it to be when the big fan is operating fully.  when, if ever, it pays off , both for Phoenix,  and the rest of us taxpayers.

Not a private venture by far.  Highly tax-  supported, funded for building and more subsidies from other taxes when it operates.  I’ll   venture to say.

May be a good idea and justify the tax investment,  but the big play picturing Phoenix as a   great philanthropic operation seems overblown.

Am I wrong?

posted by: FedupwithLance on February 16, 2010  10:44am

@fedupwithliberals/lance:

This has been discussed before, but I’ll re-hash here so others can understand what’s going up:

1) The turbine is located in AN INDUSTRIAL AREA. No houses within a mile at least! Noise? Heh obviously you haven’t stood at the end of James Street- even IF noise was actually an issue (it’s not), the bridge construction, harbor traffic, draw bridge sirens, etc would easily drown out ANY minor hum you might hear.

2) The blades aren’t like fan blades that push the air through. They’re airfoils that fly THROUGH the wind; but they’re designed in such a way as to not spin very quickly. Bird-blender it’s NOT… actually if you look at those “studies” you’ll notice the birds killed by those wind turbines are NOT NATIVE TO THE AREA IN THE STUDY, and the turbines they were trucked and released under were an older design whose blades actually spin faster than the new ones.

Lance, come to the commissioning Feb 25th at 11am! Hear about the project, watch it turn on, and try to understand it’s not about taxpayer money AT ALL.. Phoenix paid for it, and the CT Clean Energy Fund (paid for by electricity customers in CT, authorized by the legislature) helped offset the cost. Projects like these, vital to the security of the country as they are, would never get off the ground if grant money weren’t an option.

By producing enough turbines, WITH grant money, an economy of scale occurs, driving down the cost per unit, making grants null in just a short time.

The sooner you realize this turbine isn’t about YOU, the sooner you’ll understand this is a business decision, and one that a growing number of people (liberal and not) support.

Renewable energy doesn’t produce pollution.

posted by: City Hall Watch on February 16, 2010  12:40pm

Fed Up With Lance:

Correction: It is about tax money. All electrical users are taxed monthly and this money is what fuels the Clean Energy Fund. In this case, these taxes funded about half the cost of the turbine. I believe the grant was about $250K if I remember right. You may argue that this is a good investment of that tax money because it will supposedly lead to wider use of alternative fuels and less dependency on the fossils. I will argue that my family will see no benefit from this turbine in the near or long term and that I should not be forced to subsidize it. While it saves Phoenix money, it costs me money. If the state wants to encourage this type of investment, there are many ways to encourage business to do so without taking from the masses to support the few. Tax credits, the use of long term, low interest bonding, accelerated depreciation. As a side note, I’m sorry to hear the blades will not whack the birds. I was looking forward to picking up a few ducks to serve under glass with some wild rice.

posted by: Bruce on February 16, 2010  12:51pm

Firstly, this project is not really supported through taxes, it is supported by a very small fee on your electric bill (OK, you can argue that this is a hidden tax, but really your contribution is connected to your energy consumption not your income).  At any rate, on-site distributed generation projects like this will put energy onto the grid close to where it is needed, reducing expensive congestion charges and reducing the demand for foreign oil.  It seems like an excellent choice for investment.

posted by: fedupwithliberals on February 16, 2010  2:27pm

FEDUPWITHLIBERALS/LANCE

“you’ll notice the birds killed by those wind turbines are NOT NATIVE TO THE AREA IN THE STUDY”

As long as the birds are not native, we can kill them with a clean conscience! Hmmm, so there is a shifting of liberal standards and sensibilities here? I wonder what your friends at WWF, PETA and the Audubon Society will have to say about that!! And as far as the noise and distance is concerned, very low frequency sound waves, the noxious noise it predominantly emits, will drive a person crazy living within the proximity of that turbine. And what will happen when and if zoning laws change and low income housing is built closer to the area? Encourage more drive-by shootings to distract you from the background noise?

posted by: Westville Mom on February 16, 2010  3:21pm

One wind turbine is a kinetic sculpture.
Thousands of them are a visual pollutant.

If you figure out how many are needed to deliver significant amounts of electricity to a city, you get the predicted result ... NIMBY, or perhaps NIMCC (Not In My Cape Cod.)

I never thought I’d agree with Obama on much, but his new nuclear direction makes sense, although far less ambitious than is needed.  Whatever happened to all the talk about “small” nuclear? ....
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/06/10/10greenwire-company-calls-new-small-nuclear-reactor-a-game-45123.html

The only politician who seems to “get it” lately is Lamar Alexander, who is calling for CHEAP electricity. Duh! If CT wants to lure business, it will make electricity CHEAP, not TRENDY.  At half a million per turbine, it sure looks like “boutique” energy to me!  (And if the electricity customers of CT are paying for half of it, why isn’t half the power generated being fed back into the grid?  I don’t much like this “grant” idea for independently owned businesses.)

Hope they have good security there ... that area is full of mischief at night.

posted by: wind on February 16, 2010  3:31pm

the turbine is located in an Industrial Zone, and therefore won’t be near housing. There’s a park across the street, so houses won’t be built there either.

There are abandoned factory buildings up and down River Street, and I can’t see someone wanting to live there; across the river is a stunning view of rusted oil tanks, bridge construction, idling container/oil ships, tugboats, and across the Mill River there’s a cement-mixing plant, old polluted power plant, and draw bridge.

A business makes a decision to invest in it’s future, and Alan Appel writes a VERY detailed, EASY TO UNDERSTAND article, and includes SHARP photos to illustrate the process.

I encourage all who are curious about renewable energy to visit Solarfest.com and attend this years’ Renewable Energy Festival (16th year!) in July 2010! Workshops galore, solar-powered sound stages, entirely run by volunteers; it’s not an event to be missed! Learn about the issues before you decry them as HARMFUL—-

Obstruction is more dangerous than innovation. The cool thing about Phoenix Press (it’s a printing company!) and their wind turbine project: they’re actually helping YOU THE CONSUMER by reducing demand on an already-taxed electricity grid, and PRODUCING ITS OWN ELECTRICITY. Awesome! :)

posted by: observer on February 16, 2010  4:59pm

What happened to the planned turbine on at the info New Haven booth? http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/wind_power_advances/

posted by: Walt on February 16, 2010  5:01pm

To Fedupwith Lance (  the one above,.  there are other “Fedups”  it appears.)

NOT AN   ELECTRICAL ENGINEER. but believe your idea that the blades(airfoils)  fly through the air is a bit wacky.

Actually I think the turbine might better be described as a reverse fan.

The wind is the power source,  with the airflow on the blades   spinning the turbine (generator)  which then   produces the electricity which is fed via the wires into   the electrical grid system.

Just the reverse of the fan in which the power source is the electrical grid which feeds the motor which turns the blades and produces a breeze or wind.

One of us does not know what he is writing about. I think it is you, but am open to any explanation of your flying - blade theory,

posted by: wind turbine info on February 16, 2010  9:40pm

Walt-

From: http://www.awea.org/faq/basicop.html

“The wind passes over both surfaces of the airfoil shaped blade. It passes more rapidly over the longer (upper) side of the airfoil, creating a lower- pressure area above the airfoil. The pressure differential between top and bottom surfaces results in a force, called aerodynamic lift. In an aircraft wing, this forces causes the airfoil to “rise,” lifting the aircraft off the ground. Since the blades of a wind turbine are constrained to move in a plane with the hub as its center, the lift force causes rotation about the hub.”

A window fan pushes air in a manner not like an airfoil, which “flies through” the air. In this way, a wind turbine can actually utilize MORE energy from the wind than if the force of the wind had to PUSH several tons of fiberglass blades, in the manner of a windowbox fan.

posted by: juli on February 17, 2010  1:36pm

city hall watch:

my tax dollars pay for a lot of things i rarely benefit from, too. like highways (i use them maybe once every other month, if that.)

and i’d argue that my tax dollars (and my grandchildrens’ as well) are misused in something else… what could it be?
oh yeah, those little things called wars for access to foreign oil.

posted by: robn on February 17, 2010  1:45pm

I’d rather subsidize clean energy like wind turbines than subsidize foreign wars that only line the coffers of Arab Sheiks, Texan refiners and military contractors.

posted by: Walt on February 17, 2010  3:04pm

Wind Turbine Info

Agree completely with your first paragraph which is a quote and makes sense.

In no way does it back up your claim in paragraph 2 which is in your words, not a quote.

Call it what you wish.

Aren’t you even a little curious about what actual cash.  if any Phoenix is tossing into the pot?

Wouldn’t you like to know how many KW   the turbine is supposed to produce for   a half million bucks?

After it is built,  does Phoenix own the turbine and its power output,  both what Phoenix uses and the income from the sale of excess power ,  if any, to the Grid,  even though its true contributions may be low?

Don’t you care?

I do.

Wouldn’t you like to see figures ,  if they exist,  which prove cynics like me are wrong in questioning the   supposed great philanthropy of Phoenix?

posted by: Bruce on February 17, 2010  5:00pm

The reputation for wind turbines becoming bird blenders dates back to the 1980s.  Modern wind turbine blades rotate much, much slower than they used to.  I would note that fossil fuel pollution and oil spills also kill a lot of birds.  And humans.

Walt,  you can find figures for all the awarded grants on CCEF’s 2009 annual report. Here’s a summary of this one:

Rated power 100 KW
Total cost $495,803
CCEF grant $263,155

Based on media reports:
Savings estimate $35,000/yr
Payback period est 14 years

Distributed generation is well worth supporting.  This project will reduce the need for load lift (extra power put onto the grid to make up for inefficient transmission) and it will reduce congestion charges which are a significant part of our hefty CT electric bill. 

Wind, in particular, is a good investment.  With very large turbines (larger than this) it is the only renewable energy source that is cost competitive with other more traditional generation methods.

posted by: Walt on February 18, 2010  10:40am

Thanks Bruce.  Better than no figures .

Do you believe Phoenix actually put up that much cash.? 

$35,000 per year savings come close to a 14 year payout but   doesn’t make it. 

For a closer -to -correct forecast have to factor in the   half million $$ invested, and what it would have produced   if invested in a different project,  or if financing Phoenix’s share,  the interest paid plus maintenance     for 15 or 20 years if not already in the total etc..

It is a phony figure is my guess as are most projections by govt.  folks.

Don’t ask me to figure it out .  I forgot the formulas long ago.

This project,  as I see it,  has as much chance of meeting projections as Dick Lee’s forecasts when we were investing other folks’  money in the Downtown Mall,  the Oak St.  Connector , the Coliseum etc.

The stuff from supporters on such projects,  like   FedupwithLance claim that there are no houses within a mile of the turbine are usually just BS,  as in this case.

Taking a look this morning, my estimate (via odometer reading)  is that the nearest house is between 500 to 600 feet from the new structure and a minimum of a couple of hundred residences are within Fedup/Lance’s   mile.  Did not count them.

Taking off my skeptic’s hat for a moment,  It looks pretty good,  is hidden   behind the industrial buildings,  and usually can not be seen by area residents unless they live on upper floors.

Big , but does not stand out   among the many tall light posts at the nearby park,  or the transmission lines (poles)  and the bridge etc.

Cant be heard I would   assume, unless a bearing fails,  by nearby residents

Wasn’t spinning this morning despite strong breezes,  but guys were working   around the base, and I guess were not   ready to turn it over to nature.

Hope it produces something of value but not ready to acclaim Phoenix   for its actions

Thanks again Bruce,  but IMHO   pertinent data is still not known and probably never will be.

posted by: Eric on March 2, 2010  6:22pm

Walt-

Come by Phoenix Press and ask for me. I’ll show you the turbine and if you’re willing to learn about the turbine and what Phoenix Press has invested into this initiative, I’ll introduce you to our CEO, who has put a tremendous amount of effort into this project.

The turbine will benefit our business by lowering our electric bill, which is in the thousands (per month). It also will help our clients reach their customers more effectively, by providing the best product with the least carbon footprint in the market today. This isn’t an unverifiable claim either. Our paper suppliers are part of the supply chain, as are our recyclers, ink manufacturer (vegetable-based ink), and toner company (MSDS-certified in all 50 states!).

March 11 is the official date the turbine will turn on. UI and Northern Power (the manufacturer) need to verify that all systems are “go” including yesterday’s tests of the emergency brake and circuit breakers.

Walt- come down and ask for me; I’ll show you the turbine up close and show you our operation. Perhaps seeing this project as a business’ effort to green their product and benefit the environment versus a royal stick-it-to-the-taxpayers free-money-grab (which it’s NOT!!) will change one’s attitude.

This is a family-run company. We’re honest folks, and the wind turbine project isn’t an effort to fleece money from you. It’s an effort independently-conceived which will benefit all in the form of clean air in New Haven and the region. It will lessen the strain incurred by the 480MW power plant in our harbor and further reduce the need for backup generators, which are jet engines, that they are currently building here in new haven.