New Haven Independent

posted by: anonymous on February 11, 2013  2:48pm

Other cities issue large fines when people drive during a natural disaster, and ruin things for everyone. 

Can we institute that here? 

I’d rather see a few dozen scofflaws get $1,000 tickets than see child pedestrians and sick people dying because the streets and sidewalks are not passable.

posted by: Stylo on February 11, 2013  4:04pm

I have a show at Toad’s tonight that hasn’t been cancelled. Am I just supposed to waste $70?

posted by: streever on February 11, 2013  4:15pm

Stylo:
That is a customer relations problem between Toads and you. If Toads is a bad store to buy from, you need to make them pay with their wallets. That isn’t the cities problem, I’m sorry to say.

posted by: HhE on February 11, 2013  4:39pm

No Stylo, you ought to get a refund from Toad’s.  What you are not supposed to waste is ink seeking sympathy.

posted by: missmg on February 11, 2013  5:14pm

Stylo, check out Toad’s page. 

http://www.toadsplace.com/

Tonight’s shows are canceled or postponed.

posted by: Threefifths on February 11, 2013  5:33pm

posted by: anonymous on February 11, 2013 1:48pm

Other cities issue large fines when people drive during a natural disaster, and ruin things for everyone

Should this also apply to Bicycle Riders.

posted by: Stephen Harris on February 11, 2013  8:51pm

Plowing is difficult because we have very little off street parking. Cars get buried by snow on narrow streets leaving little room to plow. There’s no easy solution.

posted by: HhE on February 11, 2013  9:16pm

3/5ths, if bicycle ridders present the same hazards and other issues that motor vehicles, so, then yes.  IF. 

I guess their might be some hard core mountain bikers that would go for it, but I did not see bicycles out on the roads, nor parked along side.  I did see seven cars left on the street.  Mind you, every building on my street has off street parking.  I also saw a group of college kids dig out their cars from a street today, and then park them right back on the same street. 

Tell me, if a union member rode a bicycle, would that be okay?  Or are all union members too honorable and good to ride one of the hated bicycles?

posted by: streever on February 11, 2013  9:54pm

3/5ths,
Cities charge because there is a real cost associated with the behavior. A car that drives on an unplowed road and gets stuck causes hours of delays and real financial costs, in the hundreds if not thousands, without even considering the lost economic potential of a street going unplowed for an extra 4 hours making residents miss work.

A bicycle does not get stuck. A bicycle does not need towing. A bicycle does not prevent plowing.

You have no understanding of logic or causation if you don’t get this: I’m not trying to insult you, honest, I swear. I am really trying to explain this, but your position is strange, because it completely ignores the reason for charging.

The REASON that we charge is because the cars that get stuck actually cost us all money. Therefore, it makes no sense to charge a cyclist, because they do not cost us money.

posted by: Threefifths on February 12, 2013  12:52am

To all who are complaining about stuck cars.How do you know if those cars that got stuck are not cars that belong to emergency workers who had to get to work or maybe hospital workers trying to get to work.Did not the chief of police car get stuck.How about the buses that got stuck.How do you know if those cars that got stuck were not trying to get to the safe areas to park and got stuck on the way.I know some owners who were trying to move there cars and just got stuck.Next the union haters will be complaining about the over time the union workers will be geting.

posted by: HhE on February 12, 2013  2:37am

3/5ths, the all but one of the seven cars stuck on my street were parked on the street the night before, were left in place during the storm, and were interfering with but did not prevent the city from plowinging a single lane.  One car was abandoned at the end of the street in a way that block the street. 

My street, like many others is a mix of blue collar, pink collar, grad students, and “others”—probably in that order.  It is possible that one of the parked cars belonged to someone who is an emergency or hospital worker, who walked (or otherwise left their car at home), and was unable to return home to shift their car during their extended shift.  Yet not only is that a long shot, is it not reasonable for someone in those circumstances to follow the weather forecast (say, through NOAA’s web site) and plan ahead?  The abandoned car?  Maybe an emergency worker, but they could have returned much sooner to get the car out of the way.

As for a group of twenty somethings who share a house, and team up to free their cars, and THEN re-park them on the same street the NHFD uses to get from the Whitney Ave fire house into Newhallville is just selfish.

That is what we are taking issue with.  People who cannot be bothered to think about other people, and the cost that in turn imposes upon the rest of us. 

If someone is required by their job to work 12 hours on, 12 hours off, then I do not object to their getting overtime.

posted by: streever on February 12, 2013  9:01am

Hhe:
Be careful, you are entering the endless recursive loop: 3/5ths asks a question, you answer, he asks an unrelated question without acknowledinge your answer, you answer, he then expounds upon his original point.

I am naming it the 3/5ths logic loop.

posted by: HhE on February 12, 2013  10:12am

streever, good advise, but alas too late. 

I find if you push hard enough on the logic loop, it comes full circle, with 3/5th effectively agreeing with you on a structural level, yet continuing to maintain that he was right all along, and you continue to miss the point. 

Other ideas from Phil315:

Correlation and proximity are causality. 

Youtube is evidence.

An “!” proves a point.

Tertiary education is snake oil. 

Here is something I learned in PED885:  tilting at windmills is good cardiovascular exercise.

posted by: streever on February 12, 2013  11:58am

It seems as good a work-out as any I’ll get on my stationary bike indoors :)! Go for it!

posted by: Threefifths on February 12, 2013  2:18pm

posted by: streever on February 11, 2013 8:54pm

3/5ths,
Cities charge because there is a real cost associated with the behavior. A car that drives on an unplowed road and gets stuck causes hours of delays and real financial costs,

How about how the city is now dumping snow in peoples driveway.The city began to get calls Tuesday from people who had plowed out their driveways, only to see them filled back with snow by the city’s removal crews. Chief Administrative Officer Rob Smuts said some piling up is inevitable because plows need momentum to get through the streets.Should not the city be fine.

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/newest_challenge_blocked_driveways/

posted by: HhE on February 12, 2013  3:23pm

Yes 3/5th, the city of New Haven ought to fine the city of New Haven.  I am sure this will deter the city from the pushing of snow in front of driveways.  Anyway, the city sure could use the money to help cover the cost of snow removal.

posted by: streever on February 12, 2013  8:11pm

No, the city shouldn’t be fined, please. Think a little.

Every house has a driveway and they are all piled up next to each other in a row, how on earth could the snow not end up there?

posted by: Stephen Harris on February 13, 2013  7:14am

Hi David,
Everyone doesn’t have a driveway which makes snow removal even worse.

posted by: HhE on February 13, 2013  9:47am

I keep coming back to the selfishness of underutilised driveways in my area, and the number of cars back on the street.  This sort of thing never happens in up state New York. 

As it is, a friend from a parallel street is keeping her car in my drive until this mess is cleared up.  My 5 1/2 year olds helped dig out a fire plug.  At the end of the day, just Aussie up, take care of your responsibilities, help out where you can, and enough with the whine—have some cheese and crackers too. 

Thank you.

posted by: streever on February 13, 2013  12:04pm

@Harris
Well, on a block like mine (one of the worst for the snow cleanup!) everyone does have a driveway: however, people didn’t use the driveways well (like Hhe said), so when the city was finally able to plow, of course they plowed in driveways.

The driveways are about 20 feet apart, so I’m just trying to ask 3/5ths where the heck else would the snow go. Some of it will go in driveways.

posted by: Stephen Harris on February 13, 2013  5:21pm

@Streever,

Yes, you’re right. Plows do push snow back into my driveway. I was just thinking about how plowing is frustrated by all the on street parking.

posted by: streever on February 13, 2013  5:36pm

@Harris
Totally! I think the city did a commendable job, considering the serious obstacles we face.

Blocks like mine which are riddled with under-used driveways cause serious problems and obstructions.

Streets without driveways cause more problems.

Ultimately I’m with you on the long-term game, which I think involves New Haven under-prioritizing the automobile and building up walking infrastructure.

The disproportionate ownership of personal automobiles in New Haven means that catastrophic weather events are made worse. One real improvement we can make is a de-prioritization of the automobile.

posted by: Threefifths on February 13, 2013  8:57pm

posted by: streever on February 13, 2013 11:04am

The driveways are about 20 feet apart, so I’m just trying to ask 3/5ths where the heck else would the snow go. Some of it will go in driveways.

And if I push the snow into the street I get a fine.The city has no right to dump snow in peoples driveway.It is there jobs to come up with a plan not mine.Here is a plan truck the snow over to the city hall.

posted by: HhE on February 13, 2013  9:51pm

3/5ths, the city is not willfully dumping snow into people’s driveways.  Inherent in the process of plowing is snow being pushed, which in turn will get into drives and other cleared paths. 

This windmill is way out of concentric.