(Updated) After watching teens rampage through downtown, Alderwoman Jackie James-Evans is proposing to shut the tavern door on partiers under 21 — a proposal that would put Toad’s Place out of business, according to its owner.
James-Evans (pictured) introduced her proposal Monday night. It will come before the Board of Aldermen’s Youth Committee — where it promises to spark a passionate debate flavored by violent downtown and Wooster Square outbreaks that have accompanied some all-ages events.
That debate began this week as word spread of James-Evans’ proposal. Owners of clubs like Gotham Citi and Toad’s cried foul; the police chief and a veteran youth worker applauded.
James-Evans’ bill would prohibit events for people under 21 at any club with a liquor license. Clubowners would face $200 fine on the first offense, $500 per offense thereafter.
Click here to read the bill.
The alderwoman said Wednesday she decided to introduce the bill after getting called downtown on Christmas Eve.
It was after midnight. An all-ages party had let out at a Crown Street bar. James-Evans encountered packs of high-school teens roaming the streets.
“It was complete chaos,” she recalled. “There were kids all over downtown fighting. There kids on Temple Street. College Street. Church Street. Blocking off Chapel Street. Banging on windows. There were 50 kids marching up Chapel Street.”
She spoke to cops in the area. “They were really nervous about the possibility of something happening. There were some gangs inside the club. Prior to getting a call about a party taking place downtown, they knew nothing about it.”
Doug Bethea, a street outreach worker who helps kids in trouble, called the bill “an excellent idea.”
“I don’t think any kids should be allowed in an establishment that has alcohol. It causes problems,” Bethea argued. “It’s a place for groups of kids that don’t like each other to meet up and fight. Those things right now are destroying our city. No one under 21 should be allowed in a nightclub that has a liquor license.”
Even though clubs designate dry areas for minors, the kids can often get booze anyway in the clubs, Bethea said.
Police Chief James Lewis said other states have laws similar to James-Evans’ proposal. He said New Haven cops have had trouble with violent outbreaks tied to all-ages nights. He called such events “difficult to police” and said walls separating drinking and non-drinking areas can prove porous.
Toad’s Waterloo?
The view is different from clubs like Toad’s Place on York Street. In tough economic times, the club has increasingly turned to all-ages events. Last year the club started allowing 19- and 20-year-olds into its dance parties.
Toad’s owner Brian Phelps said that now 98 percent of his events are all-ages. As much as 70 percent of a given night’s crowd can be under 21.
“That’s where most of my business is,” Phelps said. “Most bands would not even entertain the idea of playing a venue if it wasn’t open to all ages. Toad’s would immediately be out of business,” if James-Evans’ bill passes.
He said shows that allow allow high-school patrons have “complete separation” including “two fences in the middle and the room with a security person that walks in the middle” to keep kids away from the booze. In some cases Toad’s limits alcohol to a “Rainforest Room” where parents wait during the concert; he earns most of his money those nights from the admission price.
“There should be some other way to put a leash on these new places that have stabbings and area shooting,” Phelps argued. “Maybe a place should need to have a liquor license for 10 years before they can expand their consumer base.”
James-Evans said she’s heard from Yale undergraduates this week who want to continue to be able to attend Toad’s. She said she invited them to attend the (as yet unscheduled) hearing on her bill.
She also said she’s not wed to any specifics of the bill. She introduced the bill to get debate started on tackling an important problem, she said.
“Let’s have a conversation,” she said.
Downtown Alderwoman Frances “Bitsie” Clark, who chairs the aldermanic Youth Committee, seconded that sentiment. She said the city needs to have the debate, and aldermen need to research the problem well before deciding on a final bill.
“We need to know: What are the clubs that run underage [events]? How many problems occur at those parties? How many problems occur when 18 and younger are at a place where liquor is being served? Are the major problems that are occurring in the community relating to people who are being illegally served?
“There are so many aspects. The whole purpose is for us to start studying it,” Clark said.
Robb Bartolomeo, who runs Gotham Citi on Church Street, questioned whether James-Evans’ bill targets the root of the problems.
For seven years, Gotham Citi ran a weekly Sunday party for 13 to 17-year-olds. No more. “It got to the point where kids were impossible to control,” Bartolomeo said.
But Gotham does have a separate area for 18 to 21-year-olds every night. Bartolomeo said those younger patrons don’t cause more problems than older patrons.
He also noted that two recent murders at nightclubs involved people over 21.
I definitely understand the importance of this bill in relation to many of the bars and clubs downtown, but an exception of some kind needs to be made for Toads. They have been doing all ages shows there for as long as I can remember. I saw Beck there in 1994 when I was 18 or so.
It has a completely different vibe then these "juice parties" you see touted at these clubs. Toads has music shows and a weekly dance party, but the problem clubs glorify the club scene and drinking. Toads appears to be very well managed when it comes to shows too. I'm in my 30's and am always carded, my ID scanned either in front or in the back bar area. When I was underage I was always annoyed that I couldn't manipulate the system somehow.
Kids should have someplace to go and something fun and safe to do, but the juice parties are out of hand so I agree with the bill. But I also feel that some established places need to be either grandfathered out of the new rule or it should be structured in such a way that it won't negatively impact those businesses which have a certain percentage of their weekly business from that age group.
It seems like these places always have an event on a Sunday before some federal holiday which falls on the following monday. Maybe keep that from taking place instead...I read the news on tuesday after those events and just wonder why nothing has been done.
Thanks for the efforts Ms. James-Evans, I'm interested to see how this evolves.