Deal Nears On Shaw’s Replacement

"GDDC Executive Director Linda Townsend-Maier declined to disclose details about the talks before their completion. "We're seriously negotiating," she said. "We don't want to negotiate this in the press.""

Let's get a fire under this thing Linda! Man, what could possibly be taking this long? This should be a priority ONE with the Mayor and the GDDC. People should be staying up nights and weekends to hammer this thing through.

I for one am very unhappy with the city, Yale, and the GDDC over this. My family spent about $100 a week at Shaw's and we will not be coming back anytime soon - We're now used to Edge of the Woods/ CitySeed Farmers Markets(great produce and grains) and West Haven Shop Rite (most every thing else).

I don't get it. No one cares. Close the deal!!! Trump would have fired the lot of you by now!

The Town of Orange used to be on of the largest agricultural towns in Connecticut, supplying much of the produce for New Haven County.
http://cslib.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/p4005coll10&CISOPTR=8482&DMSCALE=5.04541&DMWIDTH=700&DMHEIGHT=700&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT;=&REC=1&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0
With the post WW2 federally funded suburban building project, Orange quickly developed a character of commuter dormitory shacks sparsely deployed on spaghetti streets.
http://cslib.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/p4005coll10&CISOPTR=9385&DMSCALE=4.65426&DMWIDTH=700&DMHEIGHT=700&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT;=&REC=1&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0
This process of building housing over farmland across the nation caused farming to be consolidated in the center of the country on increasingly larger scale industrial facilities. More recently, we have been importing produce from South America where demand for industrial scale farming is ravaging entire forests daily.
Enormous amounts of tax dollars go towards subsidizing large scale farms so that petroleum based pesticides and herbicides can be strayed on monoculture crops to kill insects and fertilize plants. This process has rendered much of our agricultural soil unusable without increasing amounts of chemical growing products.
It is a similar story with livestock. Plants for processing meats have been consolidating into 4 large facilities in the midwest that import extremely poor blacks from the south and desperate hispanics from Mexico to work ungodly hours in dirty conditions for little pay. Trucking subsidies and a completely federally propped up interstate highway system are the only thing keep large chain supermarkets in business.
It would be much much much cheaper to stop paying for trucking subsidies, stop paying for the interstate highway system, stop paying for large farm subsidies, stop building public infrastructure to make land viable for private development and simply pay higher prices at a locally owned grocery that sells local produce. Supermarket chains can make so much money because we pay for all those other costs through taxes and health care costs instead of private companies paying for their environmental impacts, we have to pay for enormous and inefficient government agencies to deal with the effects of industrial food manufacturing.
It is no wonder why the cost of food has dropped and the cost of health care has risen since 1970. Instead of demanding low prices for goods, we should be demanding local economies that keep money circulating in small geographic areas, and to ensure that wealth generating or spent in New Haven, doesn't get shipped off to China or Arkansas. Urbanism only works at the scale of the pedestrian and suburbanism is only sustainable when the networks of commerce, recreation, employment and housing are supported by a user-paid transit system and both only exist if in relation to agriculture. Unless we relearn this elementary truth, we will not address any problems at a serious level.

Swatty, I now use the Shop Rite in Hamden that was a Shaw's. Shop Rite is supposed to be 'down market' from Shaw's, but I actually like it better. The prices are cheaper than Shaw's was at that location and the selection better, in my opinion...
Not sure why Shop Rite hasn't opened at the downtown former Shaw's. Would seem like a good fit.

HI PAUL:I'M PLEASED THAT SOMEONE IS INTERESTED
IN "SHAW'S",I SPENTED 11 YRS IN THAT STORE WAS
LIKE MY 2TH HOME.IN THIS MAY WOULD HAVE 12YRS
THERE AND MISSED IT DEARLY,SEEING ALL NEIGHBOR-
HOOD FREINDS AND FOUND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND IN THE AREA'S.ANOTHER THING AROUND MY SENIORS IN DIXWELL DON'T HAVE TRANSPORATION TO
SHOW AND WILL BE GLAD TO SHOP IN GROCEY STORE.
ALSO YALIES ARE COMING BACK HERE AND NEED PLACE
TO BUY FOOD,SMACK'S,AND PARENT'S WILL ENJOY THE
NOT TO FAR FROM CAMPUS,BUS TRANSPORTATION,AND
WALKING NOT BAD.

Hey, at least we're getting closer. I personally think that the whole area is way to large. It's interesting that such a supermarket would be splat right next to a neighborhood. Convenient, but strange. I'd like to see some of the parking spaces taken out (there's way too much parking), and have something developed there, including the empty lot.

Jonathan:

It seems you know some history, but stay on topic. And the topic is a new supermarket.

We need a replacement for Shaw's. Close the deal as soon as possible.

Jonathan Hopkins is right on topic. The only reason we're so perplexed by this crisis of a "food desert" in New Haven is because people cannot see the big picture: the centralization of food supply and it's corollary, the misappropriation of energy.

Jason Bradford writes:

<i>"There are multiple reasons why agriculture needs to undergo a profound shift and spending too much time trying to circumscribe the problem may delay us moving towards appropriate responses. I believe the broad vision of what needs to be done already exists—food that is more local, organic, produced, processed and distributed by renewable energy systems, and using cultivation methods that put the soil health first. Making that argument to those who are reluctant or suspicious, however, could use some better research that connects the dots credibly between energy depletion, climate change, food security, and demographics."</i>

To that end, he provides a handy graph to illustrate his point:

http://www.theoildrum.com/files/Picture 31.png

Here's the complete article:
"Energy Descent and Agricultural Population" (The Oil Drum, March 11, 2009)

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5147

Yes, Jonathan makes good points about food production and distribution in country and I agree that food production and distribution should be as local as possible.

But the story was about a replacement for Shaw's, not food production and distribution.

We still need a replacement for Shaw's. That's all I'm saying.

Swatty- it is silly to "swat" now. Good planning and due diligence of the kind being done by Linda Townsend-Maier, the Dwight community, and its consultants takes time. They are sober and experienced pros who will get this right -- as every point of fact in this article indicates.

Kudos to the GDDC and its consultants!

steve,
I agree that Shaw's needs replacing. But I don't think it should be replaced with another supermarket, I think it should be replaced with dozens of locally owned stores deployed evenly along Whalley Ave. Instead of trying to get another supermarket, I think the community should have focused on trying to get CTown to move back into Dixwell and get another small chain grocer to move into the Walgreens plaza near the Boulevard.
Then a long term plan could be enacted to make Whalley Ave much more attractive for small businesses, local stores and private housing. Businesses need access to transit for employees, shops need foot traffic and low travel speeds so that passersby can read signs and see addresses, and housing needs livable audible levels, and some privacy. To accomplish this we would need an aggressive street tree saving and planting program, sidewalk paving improvements, crosswalk upgrades, possibly bus-only lanes on Whalley, dedicated on street parking, fewer curb cuts for driveways, mandatory 0 foot sidewalk set backs for retail buildings and better side and front yard setbacks on other building types, shared parking facilities buried in interior blocks, maximum parking limits, bike rack facilities, bike lanes, etc.
Some of this is already being done between Winthrop and Sherman.
http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/CityPlan/WhalleyAvenue.asp
The ConnDOT has recently released a master plan for creating a green median along the length of Whalley among other things.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34770953/WhalleyAvenue-DRAFTFinalReportJuly2010
Personally, I'm not all that enthusiastic about either project and I wish the final plans were much better, but it will likely be an improvement from what we have now.
Support systems also need to be put in place that help educate people who are interested in owning a store or running a business on how to apply for loans, do general building maintenance, and get in contact with other people in the community who are interested in sharing transportation costs for goods, street sweeping services costs, and other costs that may come along.
It would benefit the city in the long run to initially subsidize these efforts until stores get their footing.
If I open a grocery that sells produce that is grown on a local farm, my backyard, my window boxes, and on the roof of my mixed use building that houses the ground level grocery, 2nd floor office space and 3rd floor affordable housing unit than any money that you might pay me for food would go back into my store, go towards property taxes on my house that's located within the city, and also go towards other businesses in the area that have goods and services that I need.
This local relationship is what made New Haven one of the most prosperous cities in the country a century ago. And it is our abandonment of this relationship that has given rise to such high poverty levels, a small middle class living in the city, and sky high taxes for few services in return.
Even if a store imports goods from elsewhere but is owned locally keeps more than half of the profits within the community, whereas 57 cents of every dollar spent in a chain store is sucked out of the local economy and put into some corporate owners US tax exempt off shore bank account, or into the devastation of South American forests, or into practically unregulated wage slavery in China.
Health care costs, transportation costs, soil degradation, chronic unemployment, housing foreclosure crisis-they're all the same problem that we continue to try and address separately when they're all interconnected.
Continuing midwestern industrial farms and supporting supermarkets are the same thing.

It's frustrating that the City's government is not helping with this, at least it wasn't mentioned in the article. If DeStefano, Et al. can be so vocal and active with the State Street tower why cant they aide the GDDC? I know the city doesn't own the property but it still could offer tax incentives or other perks. It's pretty obvious where the City's administration priorities are, and to which communities.

I asked those in the know if a Pike Place type of operation was feasible and was told it wasn't possible for a number of unstated reasons.

A supermarket is not a bad idea. A row of liner shops along the Whalley frontage for local business would hide the parking lot and improve the streetscape while providing opportunities for local business.

J. Hopkins,
I don't necessarily disagree with your vision of Whalley Ave., but, give me and idea of what you mean when you say 'dozens of locally owned businesses'. What kind of businesses would you imagine?

TO THE PUBLIC:SINCE WE CLOSED THE STORE IN MAR
NOTHING IN THAT BIG PARKING LOT,THE NEIGHBORHOO
IS EMPTY WITHOUT HAVING SHOPPING STORE.MANY FOLKS WITHOUT TRANSPORTATION TAKE THEIR WALKS
AND MEET THERE FREINDS TO GET SOME BARGIN'S,OR
JUST COUPLE OF GROCERTIES FOR WEEK-END,HOILDAY,
OR UNTIL GET NEXT CHECK FOR MONTLY INCOME.MANY
OF US THE WORKER'S WERE SHOCK AT THE UNION WAS
NOT INFORMING US OF THE CLOSING,CUSTOMER'S
LETTING US KNOW.I'M MISSING MY STUDENT'S,ELDER
NEIGHBORHOOD FOLK'S WHERE GET NEWS AROUND THE
AREA OF VARIOUS EVENT'S.HAVING VARIOUS SALES ON DIFFERENT ITEMS AND,SATURDAY'S KIDDY EVENT
INFORMATION FOR EVERYONE.ALSO HAVE COOKING RECIEPTS TO TRY AT HOME,ALONG WITH THE SHAWS
SAVINGS CARD SAVED ALOT OF MONEY,MANUFACTOR
COUPONS WORK GOOD ALSO,SO PLEASE BRING AN STORE TO MEET THE COMMUNITY NEED'S,HIRE FOLKS
FROM THE AREA,HOURS THAT WE HAD WITH SHAW'S ANDPUBLIC WILL WELCOME OUR STORE AGAIN WITH OPEN ARM'S.

It would be nice if an IGA store opened up in the area. Usually IGAs have a wider variety and are more apt to put local/regional products on their shelves.

I agree with both Steve and Jonathan, from different viewpoints. On the one hand, the city lost its only centrally-located supermarket, and in the eyes of many, this appears the loss of their only food source. We are in a different era than Jonathan mentioned of 100 years ago, of people walking down the street to pick up food at the baker, the butcher, the produce stand. People haven't the time to make multiple stops; they need one location for once a week shopping, so the thinking goes. New Haven lost its supermarket, and it needs one back.

But on the other hand, was it not a supermarket, a corporate entity accountable only to its profit margin, not to the community, that left New Haven? Why should we try to bring in one of Shaw's competitors, a company susceptible to a new round of corporate mergers, that runs the risk of shutting down again? Additionally, the supermarket business model is based on suburban distribution networks (highways) to bring in food to sell to suburban demographics. Just search Google Maps for "supermarkets" in the New Haven area, and look to the ring of Stop&Shops; and ShopRites surrounding the city proper.

I've been trying to reconcile these two seemingly contradictory solutions in my head since Shaw's made their announcement in February. The ideas Jonathan and local food advocates put forward take time to make happen, and the more time spent without a solution the more painful the situation becomes. But to repeat, it was a supermarket that caused this pain in the first place.

Farnham Ave,

That is well summarized.

The contradiction you cite is the result of a divide between those who have the power to make decisions about problems but not the time to understand the complexity of the problem (GDDC, Yale ONHSA) versus those who have taken the time to truly understand the problem but have no decision-making status (Jonathan Hopkins, et al.). Thus, the solution is in lobbying those decision-making entities and attempting to educate them, rather than just allowing them to make decisions for us. Of course, that's easier said than done. Quite often decision makers have rather strong convictions based on a false sense of wisdom. In fact, every time we allow them to make decisions without us challenging their authority, this false sense of wisdom grows.

TL:DR We need a more decentralized decision-making process that allows for a more diverse set of options. Let reality reveal itself.

steve,
There is definitely a lot of potential for that vast parking lot and I hope it gets subdivided into small building lots.

davec,
Like I said, Shaw's needs replacing. So let's look at what Shaw's offered: groceries, fruits and vegetables, deli meats, bakery goods, financial services, packaged meats, greeting cards, books, school supplies, toys, hygiene items, and general convenience supplies. Each of these things can be supplied in locally owned stores. Between Broadway and Westville village, Whalley could probably support 10 small grocery stores, half a dozen bakeries, another farmer's market (Whalley & Winthrop?), a few delis, a few butcher shops, a couple banks, a few book stores, an arts shop that sells stationary and school supplies, a toy shop, a few pharmacies, a several corner stores. The goal should be to have daily needs within walking distance of as many community members homes as possible. CTown closed down on Dixwell Ave because Shaw's sells the same exact goods and then some. Competition remains fair and stores support each other because specialty shops can't carry items for everyone's preference, in which case an item that you need is never more than 2 or 3 blocks away at the next similar type store.

Farnham Ave,
I acknowledged in my previous post that these networks of local commerce take a lot of time to develop, which is why I've been suggesting for months that the community try to draw CTown back to Dixwell and another small chain grocery to Walgreens plaza in the short term. The city can accelerate the process of localized commerce by providing infrastructure and streetscape improvements and put support systems in place to incentivize the flourishing of a local entrepreneurial spirit. There also need to be national changes in how we grow food, how we produce goods and at what scale we transport them around.
I prefer to shop everyday or at least several days a week for items that I will need for that evening and the next morning. This ensures that I consume everything I purchase, which I have found saves more money than buying in bulk and then inevitably throwing some of it away or paying for large refrigerators/freezes and their energy costs to store it. Many working people in the neighborhood have to resort to doing bulk shopping in one stop because their jobs require them to commute out of the city and in the afternoons they have to pick up their kids from daycare or school because the kids can't walk home. Lots of time is eaten up by completely unnecessary driving activities. Indeed, lots of things need to change for localism to return and it will take a lot of time, but that doesn't mean we should take the initial steps to accomplish this.

Farnham Ave,
Grocery stores, like all businesses, succeed or fail. Shaw's was an example of a failed business. It's the nature of the machine. But, grocery stores are a necessity, since most of us don't live on farms. As a community the people of New Haven should work towards making our city attractive to grocery stores (chains or IGAs) so that we can once again enjoy the benefits of not only convenient shopping, but also a solid source of employment and tax revenue.
While it would be nice to consume only locally grown produce and raised livestock, this isn't possible. But, by changing our consumption habits, thus spending habits, we can hopefully coerce the markets so that regional/local farms become more cost-effective. Or, if we like we could revert to sustenance farming, but the soil in New Haven isn't great for such an endeavor. We all know the old saying, New England farms are best for growing rocks.

Also, a major issue with supermarkets, as highlighted by Shaw's closing, is that when the anchor closes, we lose all those other services too. In a single day the neighborhood lost two banks, a grocery store, a deli, a bakery, etc. That would never happen with a network of many small local stores. Why we have rushed to get ourselves back into this dependent, fragile and lopsided relationship with another supermarket is beyond me. A local network of commerce takes longer to establish, but it is also much more resilient and self-regulating. Demand will dictate what stores open where and if one deli closes, there is just another one a couple blocks away and stores can continually open and close without there being enormous blows to the level of service provided throughout the whole system. And if we begin to notice a pattern of several stores closing, we have time to find the issue and enact a solution, whereas when Shaw's announced their closing we had no time to react and have been scrambling since then and we've come to what I perceive is an undesirable solution, which is attracting another supermarket.
The resilience of local commerce can still be seen today with New Haven's decent selection of locally-owned stores and locally produced goods even when the odds are stacked so high against them with overwhelming support at every level of government for global networks of commerce, industrial scale farming, the interstate trucking system, and big box stores.

Looking forward to the time when the very bright mr Hopkins finishes schools and returns to New Haven to work on these complex and difficult social, political and economic problems.

WELL,SINCE THE LAST FOLLOW-UP HEARD SOMEBODY WAS INTERESTED IN SHAWS.I'M HOPING THEY GET THE STORE OPEN BEFORE THANKSGIVING,OR NO LATER
OR BEFORE XMAS TIME FOR BIG HOILDAYS SET INTO THE SEASON.WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE (NAILS,HAIR SALONS,CHURCH'S,FAST FOOD EATER'S,)BUT PLACE TO SHOP FOR GROCEY'S ALL YEAR AROUND.THE YALE
STUDENT'S MISS THE SHOPPING AT NIGHTS AND ELDERY ALSO WITH NEIGHBORHOOD FOLKS.