Housing, Bakery Eyed For Ex-Dry Cleaners

I can't fathom opposition over this, except that it should be MORE DENSE.

As it is, Westvillians should be very happy with it. It's small scale and attractive.

NIMBY's can't be pleased by literally anything.

Does anyone know whether the dry cleaners did work on-site? (I live in East Rock, which apparently viewed as a foreign country by some its neighbors 🥸). If dry cleaning was done on site after 1967, it is an “establishment” subject to the Transfer Act. This will complicate its redevelopment for any use. But plenty of former dry cleaners have been successfully redeveloped.

Readers are undoubtedly familiar with the term NIMBY. Listening to some of the speakers last night reminded me of another acronym- BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything).

Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA - Please vote NO!

Hey look its the same business who vehemently argued against the Edgewood bike lanes because of won't someone please think of the parking now back here complaining about competition in the neighborhood.

Isn't this the guy behind the proposed movie studio over in Fair Haven?

I attended the full meeting and these are the facts. (Full Disclosure I live 3 houses away)

First, the developer appeared before a sparsely attended CMT mtg in June, BUT it was hybrid, hard to hear, no digital presentation of the plan, and the discussion was limited to about 7 minutes, and one person dominated the questioning. So, this BZA was ESSENTIALLY the first time most in the neighborhood heard all the details.

A total of 19 people from the public testified:
3 (including me) were neutral and wanted more information and will f/u with the developer
7 (none living on Alden) were in favor. Makes sense bc these individuals will benefit from the project but not be impacted by parking/noise/remediation. Nothing wrong with this but helps to explain why they are in favor.
9 opposed. Of the those opposed NOBODY opposed the housing element of this project.
The opposition centered around the commercial piece of the project. Zoning uses the term "convenience use" and many think if this is approved for commercial use it means the owner will put in a CONVENIENCE STORE. There is a convenience store (Westville Quality Market) about 500 feet away; it's not perfect, but the owner has invested lots of his money and has been a GREAT member of the community. People who live on the street prefer not to see another CONVENIENCE STORE. There simply is not enough business for two stores. The other opposition comes from people who don't want another coffee shop because there are two very nearby and plenty of other options in the Village. Again, is there enough business for a 3rd coffee shop? Probably not.

So, more than anything people wanted to know more about the plans for the commercial space. And that makes sense for people who live nearby and have an investment in the neighborhood. Personally, I would love to be able to walk down the street and grab a burger and beer. But, I don't live next door. And that option is available to me at New West in the Village.

“By many measures, Westville is the wealthiest neighborhood, not just in New Haven, but in the entire state. It shouldn’t be hoarding opportunity by blocking three or four more housing units — it should be welcoming those units.”

Westville definitely is not the wealthiest neighborhood in New Haven. I knocked on nearly every door when I ran for Alder in 2019, and I can tell you there are many elders who are concerned about the rising taxes and the ability to remain in their homes. There are certainly some nice homes on McKinley and Alston, but there are many smaller homes and multi-family homes as well. If you want to see wealth in the State, go to Greenwich, or New Canaan.

1644, I agree with you on context and design. As a matter of practice, the BZA regularly grants variances such as those requested here under similar circumstances. I also wonder about the economic viability of a market, but it’s the developer’s money, not mine. I do think it would be everyone’s interest to design that space in a way that could be easily converted to residential use if the market does not succeed.

The story indirectly alludes to the proposed outdoor terrace and eating areas at the ends of the proposed building. East Rock has a couple of businesses with similar spaces, notably P&M Market. Such spaces result in “eyes on the street” and increase perceived (and possibly actual) public safety.

As to Ms. Frawley’s point, there are five cafes within walking distance of my home. Each has its own personality and they are all are doing fine. In addition, Orange Street is about to get a new market/eating place, where Oriental Pantry was located. I suspect they will sell coffee 🥸. BTW, Deja Brew is lovely.

4sq., why? I’m curious as to your reasoning.

The applicant has not and cannot illustrate hardship. Saying that the lot is too skinny (to build at the density they want to build at) is not really a valid argument. The two merged lots are 110' wide total. If one follows RM1 zoning, at the side yards you need an 8' setback on one side and a 12' setback on the other; meaning that the buildable area is 90' wide...plenty. However, this ask isn't strictly about width but height because RM1 only allows one to build to the maximum 35' height if that wall is set back 17'-6" (a 1:2 ratio). Putting the design's sloped roofline aside for the moment, the most restrictive this can get would still leave the owner with a 90' wide lot which is, again, plenty.
Side yard setbacks exist for a simple reason that some neighborhoods protect daylight and fresh air (and the often overlooked issue of acoustics).
This ask is about maximizing financial returns for the property which is self-imposed and therefore, not a valid ask for a hardship. The BZA should deny.
I think the lot is quite buildable and it seems like the owner should focus on an as-of-right residential building and maybe make a try for a special exception for the retail use (if they can sell it to the community...which is potentially doable if you agree to caveats because often neighbors are rightly concerned that the business will be sold and change character overnight.)

Deja Brew has been a ruthless neighbor when a situation does not suit their needs. This project looks great and should be moved forward.

For those community member who wish to view / participate in future CMT meetings our information can be found at https://www.wwhcmt.org

As a follow up to the CMT presentation, digital plans had been provided and can be found on our site.

https://www.wwhcmt.org/previous-meetings ~> 2023 ~> June 14th ~> 203 Alden_Design.pdf

Deathandtaxes, I don’t think so. In any case, that’s entirely irrelevant to this proposal.

Robn, in practice, hardship is what the board says it is. You and I have seen plenty of cases where the board has approved variances where the applicant did not allege, much less prove, a hardship. This applicant actually has a better argument than many applications than have been approved. I can’t recall the last time the courts overruled a dimension (setbacks, etc.) variance here.

The board routinely grants dimension ordinances, in part because the zoning ordinance is seriously obsolete.The reasonable thing to do is to rewrite the zoning ordinance. This is in the works, but will likely take a year or more.

What's interesting is that nobody considers the cost of leaving this property vacant; vacancies are terrible for a neighborhood, and this one has been an eyesore for about a decade now. We need to get something in there. If I'm not mistaken, WVRA has polled Westville residents a couple times about what new businesses we want, and a specialty market -- like the ones East Rock has, like Romeo + Giuseppe's of late, or the great DeRose's Market, or whatever they are all named now (I live in 06515 now; someone else will have to update me on Orange St business names) -- is always near the top of the list, and now we might get one. (A bookstore always is high in the polls too, and when my angel funder comes through, whoever she is, I will open one.) Even if it's another convenience store, all the urbanist wisdom is that density and more businesses lift all boats. Finally, the added housing, making Westville denser, provides more shoppers for all businesses. Please, let's not stand in the way of a new business. (BTW, as more coffee shops have opened in Westville, I find I keep patronizing all of them; I just spend more money!)

I know I should save it for Yelp or whatever, but Deja Brew should worry more about the quality of their coffee and food than 'competition' taking away patrons.

The loud voices at management meetings or BZA meetings do not speak for everyone in Westville. I live in Westville and support this development - commercial use and all. I would like to see more density in housing and more walkable and bikable shopping options in the neighborhood.

Also, the recent spate of small businesses in New Haven using statutes and zoning to fight competition is dismaying - whether it be East Rock ice cream stores, downtown liquor stores, or, now, cafes/bodegas in Westville.

As a decades-long resident not far from the former dry cleaner (which I used to patronize) site, I've seen terrific improvements in the neighborhood, including the cafes and now a thriving Village. (There was a time when houses now filled with young families were literally abandoned in the neighborhood.) But we still lack the kind of population and street density that enables support for a vibrant market cafe like Nica's and others in East Rock. This will be a small but encouraging stride in that direction. And it will remove an eye sore, environmental problem, and neighborhood blight. The faster the better as far as I'm concerned.

I am totally for the apartments and decent food and bakery store to come to our neighborhood. Alida

BTW - That's a great photo of the Deja Brew Cafe. The Frawley's keep their property in excellent condition; it's a real asset to the community.

I am completely in favor of the 203 Alden Avenue site (Doyle’s Dry Cleaners) developed in a safe, smart, and mutually beneficial way for the owner and the neighborhood. At the present time, there is no evidence that the toxic/ hazardous waste problems have even been identified, never mind remediated. But we do have pretty architectural drawings of a building that is too large for the site with a request for a “convenience store”. This term appears from the comments to mean different things to different people. Will it be a bakery, a restaurant, a coffee shop, a grocery? In my opinion, there are no hardships associated with these requests as noted by RonN in other comments. The people who may face hardships are the small, successful businesses that already exist in the neighborhood. We are not East rock. We will never be East Rock. We have nowhere near the amount of foot traffic that these businesses rely on. Do a study of the comparable foot traffic between these 2 neighborhoods. That this is not a walkable area with many, many options of where to drink coffee, eat, congregate is totally spurious. This “convenience store” would be a duplication of services. If the owner changed his mind would he also have the right to rent the space to a smoke shop, a cannabis dispensary, a tattoo parlor?
203 Alden could have housing that was within current boundaries of the law and not require variances.
The owners of Deja Brew, Quality Market and Bloom are good people who have already invested their time, money and efforts into this community. I appreciate their commitment and the positive contributions to this community. Development and change are good if they are done for the right reasons and not just for the financial benefits of the owner. Please consider and urge these requests be denied by planning and zoning.

Robn, I suspect you are old enough to recall a Sly and the Family Stone song whose lyrics include the line "different strokes for different folks." You chose to live a relatively bucolic part of our neighborhood. That's fine. In contrast, one side of my house is on the lot line and the other comes within 8 feet of my neighbors' house. Undoubtedly many people would find that too close. But I also have no doubt that I will find eager buyers when I finally put my house up for sale.

You believe the BZA regularly grants variances in violation of the law. Neither of us are lawyers, and our opinions of what is illegal, plus a couple of dollars, will buy a cup of coffee (maybe). The BZA typically grants a couple of variances a month. In how many cases in the past couple of years have the courts ruled that it has acted illegally?

Dennis, you are more of a free market guy than I am. Why should we care if someone wants to put up their own money to open a business, that may fail or reduce the market share of existing businesses? A banker looking at financing a project has a legitimate interest in the former. But neither are really relevant to land use decisions.

Ben Howell brings up an important point. The people who show up for land use hearings and CMT meetings are disproportionately middle age and older homeowners. Nothing wrong with this demographic - I'm a member myself (and I have been an officer of my CMT for 20 years). But more than 70% of New Haveners are renters and the average age is around 30.

Slowing my roll a bit...I just looked at the plans posted by Josh.

What the elevations in the NHI article don't show is that the owner is not combining the entirety of two lots but going way back on 203 Alden and then adding a portion of the backyard of 197...it would be a L shaped lot with the portion on Alden 50' wide going fairly deep into the lot. That's typical on this street to accommodate a roughly 25' wide, 3-story house (just like the property to its left an many others on the street.) In order for the owner to build a 3-story house like next door, following current zoning, they would have to set back 17'-6" from each side, leaving them with only a 15' wide house. To my mind this would be an unreasonable expectation and therefore a hardship. My apologies to the applicants.

Why the owner and designer want to do a long, linear side facing set of row houses (the notoriously unsuccessful Radburn diagram) with interior car parks is a mystery to me but I guess that's just a matter of taste. I would ask for 35' heights and 12' side yard setbacks and do a 25' wide triple decker to stay in context with a very successful NHV diagram (I think).

As a neighbor, I am in favor of this development, which is in scale with the neighborhood, creates much-needed housing and will be owner-occupied to boot. I would like to encourage people to embrace this additional commercial space. As the head of WVRA I want to share that as new businesses have opened in Westville Village, people have often expressed concern to me that it would be bad for existing businesses, that there weren't enough customers for everyone, etc. T
he opposite has proven true. This is a location that will work for a small business of the kind described by the developer, and as Mark A said, this is not a saturated market. And as Mark O. said, there are costs to having a blighted property. Change is scary, but this is positive growth I believe should be embraced and I hope it will be!

I hope that the proposed market will sell fresh produce and quality food/groceries for the neighborhood. I love Westville Quality Market (they are lovely people), but enough with the cigarettes and lottery tickets. I never understood the reason for those things on Alden when Whalley has tons of that stuff in both directions right down the avenue. More housing in the neighborhood is a terrific plan.

Me as resident:
“Neighborhood convenience uses” aren’t necessarily “convenience stores”. Sec. 31 lists uses that are allowed for the healthy functioning of residential neighborhoods. Needs vary between neighborhoods. But, the NHZO recognizes these uses as appropriate, subject to the lower “special exception” criteria.

When I think of Westville where I’d walk for food or goods, it’s bounded by forest, fountain, yale Ave, and chapel. Within that rectangle, there’s déjà brew (which I like and used often when my kids were at Edgewood) the quality market (which I always supported but view as beer/candy/cigs/soda/ice-cream/lottery, and now package pickup, bloom for candles and flowers, and that’s it for commercial. Our selection is abysmal. Un/under-utilized storefronts on Willard, West Elm, and Edgewood have been dormant for 30 years. Contrast to East Rock is fully appropriate; both are predominantly RM1/2 zones with a true mixed population (age, color, income, rent/own, etc). But both have residents that support local biz passionately.

It’s difficult to know who to talk to at the neighborhood level other than the management team. And I’m not sure the design would have changed based on outreach. The residential component of the plan is at allowed density and meets most bulk standards (actually decreases prior nonconformities) and “commercial” component is under 750 SF small.

I heard the expression “hoarding opportunity” and it really resonated. We have so few development sites; when the few beloved neighborhood businesses see things as “zero sum” (new business is a threat, you win, I lose) it’s residents that really lose.

With the new IZ ordinance, this lot could “opt-in” and support up to 7 residential units with one “affordable” unit and NO parking, and retaining the Neighborhood convenience use.

Does anyone consider what follows if the proposal is denied?

Unfortunate comment from Attorney Wallace. Listen, I'd love to buy property in East Rock - have you looked at Zillow recently? Nobody is selling, and actually the same goes for Westville. And when something does pop up, it's like $800k or more. At least with this development, maybe I could afford a townhome. People want to move to New Haven and any arguments about "neighborhood character" are just textbook NIMBY and simply selfish.

When I grew up in Westville there was several pharmacies that also sold milk, eggs, bread, ice cream, ice, there were banks, a movie theater, multiple restaurants, gas stations and car repair shops, antique stores, a toy store, a hardware store, Cumberland Farms convenience store on Edgewood, another place that sold candy and ice cream and other stuff across the street, the little market on Alden that is still there, the dry cleaners. a grocery store on Whalley and Dayton, and a fruit and vegetable stand across the street, run by a friend’s grandmother, Bill’s Carousel (used to be Carvel’s) ice cream stand, many hairdressers, candy and newsstand convenience shops around the area, and cafes, delis, bakeries, second hand stores, jewelers, and boutiques.
That has always been the character of Westville, but the zoning laws changed, and many of those businesses closed and were forced out of business by the big box stores, or online shopping, or moved on, or were grandfathered in if they remained.
A little shop that sells stuff like baked goods and prepared meals and beverages, as long as it is not alcohol or tobacco or smoking or vaping products or adult materials, and doesn’t have identical products as the other preexisting market down the street, should be made welcome.
It will make the neighborhood more walkable, support small businesses, and create a community mingling spot where you can get to know your neighbors, and your kids can walk or ride their bike to the corner store with their allowance to buy a treat.
During a storm, you will be able to buy milk, eggs, bread, coffee, or other essential stuff without getting into a car if we encourage small businesses to come back into neighborhoods. Which is better for global warming to not have to drive to get the things you need, anyway.
Like we used to in the old days:

educkie22, the state will regulate the clean up of the site. A Licensed Environmental Professional and DEEP would have to sign off for it to be developed for any usee. A number of former dry cleaners have been redeveloped. The former Jet Cleaners site is now a restaurant. Characterization, the first step in the clean-up, is fairly straightforward for such sites. (This is the wonky term for identifying the contaminants on-site, their precise location, and quantities.)

East Rock’s density is not all that higher than Westville’s. The good people of Westville have, on average, more money to spend. In East Rock, Nica’s and P&M Market are thriving, even though they are a couple of blocks apart. A new bakery is about to open a block or so from Marjolaine’s. And there are a bunch of coffeehouses. No one gives a second thought to the fact that Sally’s Pepe’s, Abate’s, and Zenelli’s are located cheek by jowl.

To reiterate what is clear in the article, the developer is seeking two separate things, variances and a special exception. The former deal with the dimensions of the building and require a showing of hardship. (I strongly expect they will be granted.) The latter deals with the proposed convenience store/bakery and does not require a showing of hardship.

educkie22- they’re saying they would carry baked goods and prepared dishes, so that is not the same type of product as the preexisting Quality Market.
If the new place was more like a bakery, deli, prepared meals, coffee and tea, a salad bar, etc where you could easily pick up a prepared meal to take home, or enjoy a casual meal you bought at the counter and then sitting at a cafe table outside for breakfast or lunch or afternoon snack that would be very nice.
A market like J&B deli on Chapel or the previous mini market with salad bar that used to be in that spot in the late 1980’s (I think it was called Jong’s Produce,) or like the Whitneyville Food Center market, or like The Cooking Company in Killingworth, or like Pasta Vita in Old Saybrook.
Little places like these would add to the ambiance of the neighborhood. And they are places where you would bump into your neighbors and might have a nice chat, especially if they have a nice little area to sit and have a bite to eat or a beverage.

Would love another convenience store and deli in the neighborhood. There are currently 0 good deli options.