1989: Forces of freedom breach the Berlin Wall. Communism begins collapsing worldwide.
2012: Forces of freedom converge on New Haven’s Howe Street to confront a surviving outpost of the Red Menace and the pinko governor trying to prop it up.
At least that’s what the Republican politicians, Vietnam vets and motorcycle club members from throughout Connecticut portrayed their mission Friday when they massed for a protest outside the red-brick New Haven People’s Center.
They said they had sniffed out a real live plot to infiltrate state government and send $300,000 in taxpayer dough—not to fix crumbling VFW halls, but to keep alive a Communist-connected community center in that reddest of red-state metropolises, New Haven.
They assembled to beat back an effort to have the state approve $300,000 in bonding to repair the decaying Howe Street building, which since 1937 has hosted political events, including some Communist Party-sponsored events as well as labor, peace, and immigrant rights doings.
A not-for-profit group owns the building. At Friday’s rally, organizer Tom Scott, a former Republican state senator from Milford who came within 2 percentage points of beating Rosa DeLauro in the 1990 U.S. Congressional election and went on to become a talk-radio host, noted that one of the People’s Center’s driving forces is Communist Party member Joelle Fishman. Fishman, like Scott, once ran for Congress, in 1980 (against Larry Denardis and Joe Lieberman) back when Communists ran Eastern European governments. She serves as the New Haven “bureau” of the national party’s People’s Weekly World newspaper, which was known as the Daily Worker back when some of the vets assembled in New Haven Friday or their parents had traveled the globe to fight real gun-toting Communists.
Waving American and “Don’t Tread on Me” flags and patriotic placards, the speakers called on Democratic Gov. Dannel P. Malloy to change his mind and remove the $300,000 request from Monday’s State Bonding Commission agenda.
This isn’t just a matter of New Haven or Connecticut political wrangling or budgeting, said one of the event’s speakers, Republican state Sen. Len Suzio of Meriden. This has historic and worldwide implications.
Suzio called the People’s Center crew “people who are hell-bent on destroying the American capitalist system.”
“The governor owes it to Connecticut,” he said, “to have a better sense of priorities” rather than “squandering” “precious taxpayer dollars.”
(As of 3:42 p.m. Friday, the Malloy forces at the Capitol were refusing to surrender. The bond money is “not going to a Communist organization,” insisted gubernatorial spokesman Roy Occhiogrosso. “It’s going to a building that has great historical significance in the community, especially in the African-American community; a building in which a lot of important programs are run every day. The governor thinks it’s a worthwhile project.”)
Suzio pointed out that Communists still run North Korea. That’s not working out so well, he noted.
Both Suzio and Scott emphasized that their rally did not seek to shut down the People’s Center. Rather it sought to prevent taxpayer money from shoring it up.
“The people who run this organization are ideological misfits,” Scott declared. “That said, they have the right to exist. I would go up against the wall to defend their right to exist and their right to exist.”
But, he added, “they shouldn’t get one nickel of my money or any other taxpayer’s money to rehab their building.”
Some of the assembled vets picked up on that theme. Barry Bernier (pictured) described how he and fellow volunteers spend their own money to keep up a vets’ community center in Norwich’s rundown Civil War-era Buckingham Building. Bernier said he served in the Air Force’s target intelligence unit in 1990 “developing the large bombs that we would drop on the bunkers” in Operation Desert Storm.
Veterans hospitals deserve government money more than Communists do, declared Mike Rogalsky, who served in an Army hospital evacuation unit in Vung Tao, Vietnam, in 1968. He called Malloy’s support for the People’s Center a “total disrespect to any and all veterans who have fought” Communism.
Another Vietnam vet, former Marine Rick DePinto (at right in photo), occupied the People’s Center’s steps with his buddies from Waterbury’s Rat Pack while the formal speeches took place on the sidewalk. Afterward he offered a more succinct take on the $300,000 bonding request: “It sucks.”
A Long Line Of “Struggles”
Using different verbs, Al Marder (pictured at a 2010 event celebrating a planned boathouse for Long Wharf) took the same view—of the protest, and of the effort to block the center’s $300,000.
In a conversation conducted after the protest troops marched victoriously out of New Haven, Marder, like the demonstrators, put the event in a worldwide historic context.
He argued that the $300,000 bond request should be seen as having to do with preserving “an historic building that’s been serving the community” for 75 years—not with Communism. He portrayed the opponents as locked in irrelevant 1950s-style red-baiting.
He questioned why opponents attack him and others in the group for openly belonging to the Communist Party rather than mentioning their many other communal activities. Marder, for instance, runs New Haven’s Peace Commission, chairs the state Freedom Trail organization, presides over the Amistad Committee.
“Everyone’s concerned about my politics beliefs. They are the same beliefs I have had since I was 14,” he said, “that a social society can meet the needs of people and create a society of equals.”
Marder is 90 years old. He knows the history of the People’s Center building. He has helped make that history happen.
Marder presides over Progressive Education and Research Associates, the not-for-profit that owns the People’s Center building at 37 Howe. Marder has run that group since it bought the building in 1973. (“I believe in long careers,” he said.) He can reel off dates of the building’s history: Constructed in 1851. Purchased in 1937 from an Italian-American social club by the Jewish People’s Center. He remembers how that Jewish People’s Center grew out of a breakaway faction of the former Workmen’s Circle left-wing Jewish organization housed across Howe Street. He even remembers the reasons for the break: The Workmen’s Circle failed to oppose World War I or to “recognize the Soviet Union as a socialist state.”
He remembers the 1950s anti-Communist “Red Scare” when those connected with the People’s Center regularly encountered public attacks like the ones leveled at Friday’s event.
“I’m so glad it’s not 1950 [anymore], because I think the American people have moved away from that and are concerned about jobs and education and health and the issues that the society is not able to provide,” Marder said. “I think that was a very tragic period in American life. It [anti-Communism] was used to create a Cold War atmosphere to justify U.S. foreign policy and to create an atmosphere within our country where good, decent people were blamed.”
Thank you Anonymous. I agree. Yet, this same thing keeps happening in our community over and over. How wonderful it is to have Mr. Marder’s historic perspective and some fact. Sadly, as a society, we do not much value and seldom do we ask for the perspectives and the historic facts that many of our older Americans can provide. Those who are fighting against maintaining a beautiful and historic building are blinded by their myopic view of a political philosophy they do not understand. They fail to see the larger benefit to the community of spending the $300,000. Of course, once the building falls into total disrepair and has to be torn down (also at great cost), only then will many who should speak up now will start to mourn the lost; it will be too late then. Think of the Q-House. Many good things fall by the wayside because many who have the ability to do something about those things spend their time fighting about petty politics and personal power rather than seeking to do what is best for the larger good.
New Haven has some of the most exquisite buildings in CT. One of the things that might be good for the mayors in each town, and the Governor as head of state to consider is this: 1) Instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to lock up so many people for drug violations or other petty criminal behaviors, why not sentence them to hard labor. 2) Hire a few skilled contractors and tradesmen; put them in charge (with police supervision) of training crews where these men instead of going to prison during the day, they go to work on these buildings restoring them. The skilled tradesmen would teach them as they go how to be good masons, carpenters, painters, installers and other skills for the building industry.
3) By the end of their stint on these work crews these “prisoners” would now be skilled workers and could become gainfully employed. Just think of the larger multiple benefits to everyone. We would reduce the prison population; we would acquire skilled workers; we would reduce the criminal element in our community (at least in part), and we would greatly improve how the community looks. Importantly, we would also increase property values, and give these alternative prisoners a sense of purpose and value.
Maybe if we didn’t spend 2/3 of the national budget on the military we’d have money for this AND VFW halls. And for enforcing noise ordinances regarding mufflerless Harley Davidsons.
posted by: JustAnotherTaxPayer on June 1, 2012 10:44pm
Great Photo of one group of extremists on a mission led by Tom Scott protesting another group of extremists. Which is more threatening? No one likes folks in costumes, claiming patriotism, protesting others rights to freedom of expression, or attempts to acquire some return on their tax dollars through a grant.
If that is the biggest issue you can find, keep searching as you are missing the real criminals, and threats to your America. The same people that for generations have promoted wars, and conned the children of the middle class to go and die for, the super wealthy.
They are worth your efforts if you have the bravery to find some wealthy bankers,investment managers, or military contractor who lives in the mansions of Greenwich, to ride up on your Harleys to pose as great Americans on their front steps.
Probably not, as you look like the type they would quickly hire to protect them, and in doing so buy out any idealism you think you posses.
Veterans? Sorry, your service is honored but it did not endow you with the clearest vision of what this country is all about. Nor did it give you respect for everyone’s right to freedom of expression which is suppossed to be guaranteed still in this country. No ride up like a bunch of Nazis and protest people who are pacifists.
Please stay in Waterbury.
posted by: HenryCT on June 2, 2012 6:59am
We struggle for creation of jobs to rebuild this country. We struggle for jobs to shift the country from climate devastating fossil fuels to sustainable, green energy. We struggle to keep families in their homes. We struggle to keep college affordable and to fund quality public education. We struggle to ensure that everyone has access to health care and small children access to day care. We say pay for what all of us need by cutting the cannibalizing trillion dollar military budget and taxing the rich. Tom Scott and his buddies represent the 1% or those wishing to be the 1%. They oppose everything that benefits the 99%. They are desperate to distract, split the 99% and get us to fight against each other. Scott and pals are the executioners of the common good. Ben Franklin understood: We either hang together or we hang separately.
Construction jobs that would go to their brethren. That’s what they oppose.
posted by: Stephen Harris on June 2, 2012 10:17am
Geez, I forgot all about Tom Scott. Go commies!
posted by: Sven Martson on June 2, 2012 11:41am
Are we really going to give $300,000 to fix up the local headquarters of an international movement that murdered at least 50,000,000 people in the Soviet Union alone (including at least 6 million Ukranians systematically starved to death by Joseph Stalin in the winter of 1932-33)—a movement that enslaved much of the world’s population throughout the 20th century?
For the sake of brevity we won’t detail East Germany and the other countries under Soviet domination. And then there’s Mao’s China, Pol Pot’s killing fields, Castro’s Cuba, North Korea, and the dozens of Marxist dictators that sprung up to enslave the populations of their respective countries in Africa, South America, and Asia.
For you 99% ers (and by the way I’m one of you) worried about the 1% ers in the US: The nomenklatura—the small number of trusted party functionaries in communist governments—had the power of life and death over the rest of the population and ruled them mercilessly while bleeding them of the consumer goods that the party elite routinely enjoyed.
There never has been a communist regime that did not quickly become totalitarian. Clearly human nature does not support such an impossible ideology.
37 Howe Street is not an architecturally significant building. It is an average 19th century brick structure. As the site of the headquarters of the communist party of CT, it should be left to crumble like the nefarious ideology of the organization it houses.
posted by: FrontStreet on June 2, 2012 4:44pm
Having spent 4 years working and living in the former Soviet Union in the mid ‘90s (and four years of undergrad learning the language and culture before that), I have to say that I find little if any worth in the communist ideology, and am very amused at the naivete and ignorance of those who subscribe to that peculiar and noxious mutant off-spring of 19th century german political philosphy.
And as a resident of New Haven, I have almost as much disdain for the various bikers whose single pipe Harleys are an absolute nuisance to quality of life in this city.
The bikers and communists truly deserve one another.
posted by: Stephen Harris on June 2, 2012 6:25pm
The picture of aging bikers and a has-been politician protesting a movement that has died out everywhere, even in China where it only exists in name only (ok, I’ll concede Cuba and N. Korea but the clock is ticking), was just too funny. Don’t you think!
And just to clarify: Let’s not confuse the political ideology and blood lust of Josef Stalin, V.I. Lenin, Mao Zedong and their imitators with Karl Marx. He was an economic historian - and remarkable one at that. He foresaw the corporate state and global capitalism; and he was writing back in the mid to late 19th century when the world outside of Europe and America, meaning almost everywhere was nonindustrial.
His political theory was, at best, undeveloped, primitive and naive. It was left to those who came after him to develop a political theory and put it into practice. His name was used to promote authoritarian and totalitarian governments which, ironically, doesn’t in the least reflect his thinking.
He was, after all, deeply committed to the betterment of the working class, even though he was an educated man who could have lived a comfortable life. Also, he lived at time when workers had no rights, worked all day long, six days a week in factories that were basically death traps for what amounted to slave wages. Then, for those fortunate enough to even have a slave wage job, they had the privilege to go home to their squalid tenements. Their life was, to steal a phrase, short, nasty and brutish.
The last thing he would have approved was the mass slaughter and statism propagated in his name.
posted by: HenryCT on June 2, 2012 8:48pm
The Peoples Center is not in a foreign land. It sits in New Haven, Connecticut, USA. Those who use the Peoples Center and those who benefit from its use live and work here.
You can support endless wars that enrich the weapons makers and oil companies or you can support peace. Those who use the Peoples Center support peace.
You can support criminalizing immigrants or support their rights. Those using the Peoples Center support their rights.
You can give money to the rich and hope for trickle down jobs or you can march for jobs. Those using the Peoples Center have been marching for jobs.
You can support insurance companies deciding on whether you get health care or you can insist that health care is a human right. Those using the Peoples Center insist health care is a human right.
You can cut funding for public education or you can insist that the common good is served by funding quality schools. Those using the Peoples Center labor to fund quality schools.
You can ensure that youth have no where to go except prison or you can demand their access to education, jobs and culture. Those using the Peoples Center are in the forefront of supporting youth.
You can support the banks foreclosing on homeowners or you can fight to stop the foreclosures. Those using the Peoples Center fight to stop foreclosures.
You can deny that humans and their corporations are responsible for damaging the climate or you can accept responsibility and insist that the country move to a sustainable economy. Those using the Peoples Center insist on a sustainable economy.
The 1% support war, criminalize immigrants, funnel more wealth to themselves, deny the right to health care, privatize education, imprison millions of our youth, foreclose on families, deny their own responsibility for damaging the climate. The 1% have chosen their side. They are the same who wish to see the Peoples Center crumble.
posted by: JohnTulin on June 3, 2012 9:36am
What a bunch of tough guys - ride into town and intimidate a group of aging, intellectual, peaceniks and bleeding heart liberals in order to save New Haven and America.
Do us a favor, ride into the Ville or the Hill and put your money where your mouth is. Destitution, crime, poverty, violence, and unemployment are far more costly and threatening to our future than a gaggle of old communists.
But like Tom Scott and his kind, they only want to appear as patriotic.
And Sven, being anti-communist is reasonable of course but comparing modern American communists (all six of them) to Pol Pot and Stalin is like comparing your average American Catholic to Cortes or the Inquisitors. It is that same flawed hyperbolic hysterical rhetoric that rallies these types into “action” and gets people like Scott elected.
posted by: JustAnotherTaxPayer on June 3, 2012 11:03am
I have read some of the other comments, and blind faith is not needed to be a great American Patriot. Nor does “in your face” expression of ones beliefs at those that have a different belief, or express a contrary belief.
The hardest concept I have seen through many years of working within government is that what do you do with two parties, or groups, that both love their country, but for reasons that may be different, but due exist due to our constitution. They then find themselves st adds with different strategies on how to improve the country they love, or to make it safe for themselves and their offspring?
Both start in the same place, and those foundations are solid, and based not in malice but in optimism and good intentions.
Why has it turned to name calling, fear, hate, and open displays of this, which spreads to the younger generations, that watch and learn, and eventually act, many times regretably.
Even historical reference as ones justificatiin for passionate argument, or making a stand has to be examined carefully. Someone in the comments mentioned genocide and atrocities committed by cultures that are not American, yet carried the banner of communism. The brand of communism, is very much like the brand of democracy, or capitalism. It is a label but each nation with it’s unique place in history, and unique culture, mutate it to fit religious and cultural beliefs and customs far older than forms of government with labels.
Organized government was a result of population increase. It was necessary to create civilized existance for everyone, from the youngest infant to the oldest senior. That is what it means to be civilized, but as different Europe is from North America, and Asia from Africa when trying to adopt a brand, say democracy does not mean a culture thousands of years old will in way have a brand of democracy that will be identical or even similiar to the one we have here in the United States.
So laying Stalin’s genocide at the door of communism needs more research, as historically eliminating reference to a brand name of government in that region of the world, genocide was not uncommon (the slaughter of Albanians and Jews just two that stand out, were not conducted by “communists”).
Sad though no one has accurately documented how many lives have been taken or lostforcapitolism.
posted by: Walt on June 3, 2012 11:08am
Far from an architectural gem, the property is just an ugly, really- old brick building, figured by the Assessor at a gross value of only a little over $200K,, controlled by folks who got their local fame via their Communist Party activities, and we should toss in $300K of our tax money?
I’m with Westville Mom (her extraordinarily good posts here), Streever and others here in opposing this waste.
Not comfortable being on the same side as the old bikers , but what-the-hell, those guys claim to be Vietnam vets too, and I would, if they are in that guise, be proud to be associated with them
Tom Scott is the CT version of Ron Paul, too far out for me, but he’s right on this one!
Find a better use for our taxes.,
posted by: Editorsteve on June 3, 2012 1:36pm
Is this much ado about very little? Normally, the state would not be spending the $300,000. The bond would be repaid by the building’s owners over time. The state would be on the hook only for bond insurance and the tax deduction bondholders get for loaning the state money—perhaps $30,000 to $50,000 over 15-30 years. In exchange, the state gets to create 3 or 4 jobs THIS year, and the jobholders would pay state taxes while not taking state handouts. A win-win no matter what your ideology.
Also, I would have liked to know why the nonprofit that owns the building could not get a regular mortgage loan to repair the building. Maybe a slight increase in tenant rents could amortize that? Or is the nonprofit in very bad financial shape? You can look up the group’s tax return (form 990) on Guidestar.org or IRS.gov.
posted by: Sven Martson on June 3, 2012 2:16pm
“comparing modern American communists (all six of them) to Pol Pot and Stalin is like comparing your average American Catholic to Cortes or the Inquisitors”.
Does it work any better if we substitute Nazis for Communists and Hitler for Stalin?
I understand that they are mostly toothless has-beens today, but that’s not the point. Why is it that otherwise well meaning people involved in what appear to be socially beneficial programs must associate themselves with the horrors of history?
posted by: DeclarationOfIndependence on June 3, 2012 3:38pm
Blood descendant of Continental Army soldiers, patriots, and ancestry line way before that up the early Hudson, New Amsterdam, I bring greetings from several of our many still occupied areas that our lines trailed through such as NY, VA, NJ, OH, KY, IN, TX, IA, IL, up to Yamhill OR, CA, down coast to Tucson Tumacacori ToHell some have said, and more. Why we’ve got graves all across this land, and won’t betray those people. We will lay down beside them and easily rest our bodies till the raising to protect, to defend the greatest country ever on this planet. This article and the Enemy Communist Comments have been shared nationwide now. Fast work.
Heartfelt salutes and thank you’s to the magnificent Bikers, Marine (once a Marine always a Marine) Rick Depinto and the Waterbury’s Rat Pack, to Army’s Mike Rogalsky, Air Force’s Barry Bernier, Veterans, and to Scott and Suzio, all Americans with you and author Paul Bass.
Enemy in Rev War were Red Coats. Patriots fought them, Royalists supported them and betrayed neighboring Patriots. We won with God’s guidance. That put Royalists in their northeast box. Couldn’t get top jobs, couldn’t head West with the “pioneers” because they’d have no help getting wagons out of mud, rescue from hostile indians, meds or food. Those people were called Traitors after the war, was a long time before they ventured west, but they did and are making their messes everywhere.
We don’t need words to share feelings between today’s Patriots who participated in this blast from the past in CT, and those of us descendants named across the USA on the rolls of DAR and SAR. We all “got it” and know our Founding Docs, know what we must do to get our country back. One more Salute. To our American Hero Senator Joe McCarthy. We’re coming back.
posted by: Walt on June 3, 2012 5:08pm
Somewhat less objectionable if your version is correct but I still would not favor it, and also believe your version is untrue, and the building owners have no intention of paying the $300G with their own money,
What is the true story?
As said in another story this week in the Independent, these slippery folks have not filed their Form 990’s in several years, so it is really hard to check their fiscal status as you suggest.
I would expect that their failure to file legally-required forms would disqualify them from State-aid, but apparently not if they are buddies of the right Senators.
posted by: anonymous on June 4, 2012 10:13am
I agree, N’Zinga. Furthermore, arguing over $300,000 is a waste of time and a diversion from the real issues. Malloy has cancelled the funding.
If only we could take a portion of the State’s billion dollar annual prison budget, at least $100,000,000 of which is spent locking up people from New Haven every single year.
We could use part of this $100,000,000 to renovate a whole bunch of historic buildings with local contractors, fund our declining bus system so that local residents could get jobs, and reinstate the Youth at Work spots that have been cut so teens had opportunities.
Instead, we send this money to white prison union workers in suburbs like Suffield.
posted by: Stephen Harris on June 4, 2012 5:21pm
I wasn’t speaking about the money or the merits of the project. I was only speaking about “Marxism”, the political movement, as opposed to Karl Marx the man. Marx spent most of his time researching and writing economic history/theory against the backdrop of Hegelian philosophy. He spent very little time and effort on political theory. I don’t know if you’ve read Capital, but it is a well researched and dense book. It’s not the product of an uncritical mind.
Many times the followers of a particular idea run wild and distort it as they go (Christianity is a good example). Marx wasn’t around to defend his name against the likes of Stalin and Mao (and if he was, he would have got a hammer to his head like Trotsky). He would not have liked the idea of replacing capitalist oppression (and back then it really was), with state oppression.
I’m no fan of Marxism the political movement. It’s just another form of dictatorship. But I do respect, although I don’t completely agree with, Karl Marx’s economic theory.
posted by: GAIL on June 4, 2012 5:53pm
INSTEAD OF CRITIZING THE GROUP,MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO SOME OF ITS MEMBERS WHO FLED FROM COMMUNISM AND SAW THEIR ENTIRE FAMILIES KILLED - COMMUNISM IS WONDERFUL, EXCEPT FOR THE 180 MILLION DEAD PEOPLE AND YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE OF THEM TOO… IF IT WASN’T FOR THE VETERAN BIKERS…GAIL
posted by: Walt on June 5, 2012 5:01am
Confusion . I was commenting on the Editorsteve post above, where he claims that the commies are to pay back the “loan” but pay no interest, not on your post
posted by: Editorsteve on June 5, 2012 9:05am
The loan is dead letter, but my original point was that $300,000 was the amount of the bond issue, not necessarily the cost to the state—normally, recipients have to pay off the bond. As for the great international communist conspiracy, folks, it’s over. We won. China and India are advancing because they have moved more to capitalism. The USSR disintegrated. Why is hearkening back to the 1960s an excuse to withdraw the bond offer?
The real issue is that states should be somewhat more flexible than banks in lending to communities, because states get some “benefits” back that banks don’t care about—job creation and community infrastructure. But states get the benefits only if they can trust the borrower. The borrower can’t be fraudulent or badly run. Otherwise, the state loses money or the community benefit, or both.
The idea of checking a borrower’s religious or political beliefs for loan suitability, or grant suitability, has always existed, but as this thread shows, it is now in the forefront rather than being in the background. Does this mean that only cities with Democratic mayors can get help when a Democrat is in the state house or the White House, as an absolute requirement? Or vice-versa? That kind of nonsense is what holds Latin America (and many states) back.
What we should all demand is that such transfers of tax money be open and transparent, reported accurately… and not subject to an ideological litmus test. It is precisely because states are not bound by a profit motive that they must rank-order their proposed investments and explain why one provides a greater benefit than another.
posted by: THREEFIFTHS on June 5, 2012 12:43pm
If this was a Hells Angels Motorcycle Club House which is considered an organized crime syndicate by the US Department of Justice and want the money,Would these Anti-Commie Crusaders protest them.
posted by: Walt on June 6, 2012 7:42am
Do not know the history of the group pictured, but think most “regular” bikers would oppose Hell’s Angels funding.
Would you still support the funding if it were the KKK asking for support?
Same principle, isn’t it?
posted by: Editorsteve on June 6, 2012 8:50am
The Hell’s Angles comment is a fake issue. I said “religious or political beliefs,” and in no way does that open the door to criminals.
Are you really saying that community activists and aid groups in the building are criminals? That a building owner who at one time rented to a lawfully incorporated Communist-affiliated group (or groups) is unworthy of aid or a loan?
What about me? I was in college in the late 1960s and was an antiwar activist. Not against all wars, just THAT war. But I never did anything illegal and (unlike Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney) never sought a student deferment from the Vietnam draft. I figured that if I were called and I ducked service, someone else would have to serve in my place. (Just for the record, I am white and was 1-Y, eligible for service but with some physical problems that the Army would have to accommodate. But I lived in a poor, mainly black neighborhood; few kids went to college or could afford a lawyer to fight the draft, so my draft board had plenty of recruits available; it never needed to call for me.)
Should I be denied aid if I someday need it? Why do Dick, Bill, and George get a free ride? Not members of Hell’s Angles? The world is complicated.
posted by: THREEFIFTHS on June 6, 2012 9:35am
posted by: Walt on June 6, 2012 8:42am
Do not know the history of the group pictured, but think most “regular” bikers would oppose Hell’s Angels funding.
Would you still support the funding if it were the KKK asking for support?
Same principle, isn’t it?
The KKK does get funds.
Now Open: KKK Breast Cancer Screening Centers of America
When questioned by reporters, Robb asserted that none of the $487 Million in Federal funding from the American Taxpayer or the Komen Foundation $780,000 in grants would be used to further the KKK’s other activities of murdering Republican Candidates, burning crosses, and dragging and lynching blacks.
To 3/5 Reading further on your reference,it says it is really hyperbole, better known to me as BS
Really ridiculous if true Looks like BS but under the current regime, many weird things, and possibly KKK funding really happens.
You never answered my question. Do you favor such funding?
No I don’t.But I don’t also favor funding for the two wars we are in that was based on a lie.Do you.In fact how come these same vets are not protesting the two wars we are in that was based on a lie.
posted by: streever on June 6, 2012 1:42pm
3/5th That article is a piece of satire.
And thta is why I post it.
posted by: THREEFIFTHS on June 6, 2012 8:34pm
Hey Walt.Look what I found.How come these good old vets and you say noting about this.
WHO’S OUR ENEMY TODAY? Posted on 22nd August 2010 by avalon in Politics |Social Issues bin Laden, cia, Iran, Iraq, war
Did you know about this.
I can’t believe we executed an honorary citizen of Detroit. It must have been tough for SSS to remember who our enemies were on any given day. I wonder why Iran might mistrust the US? Maybe it is because we supplied the chemical weapons that Sadaam used against them in the 8 year Iraq-Iran War. Maybe it is because we trained the Iraq military at Fort Bragg.
Iraq friend 1980 until 1991. Iraq enemy 1991 until 2003. Iran friend 1953 until 1979. Iran enemy 1979 until today. bin Laden friend against Russia. bin Laden enemy since Gulf War. How do we keep track. I wonder why we aren’t loved in the Middle East?
Saddam Hussein donated large sums to various institutions in his campaign to curry favour with the United States. He was made an honorary citizen of Detroit in 1980.
The United States supported Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. This support included several billion dollars worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, Special Operations training, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran.
Support from the U.S. for Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in open session of the Senate and House of Representatives, although the public and news media paid little attention. On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC‘s Nightline, “It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam’s Iraq into” the power it became.
Read the rest.And let me know if you and the vets favor such funding?