Facebook = Freedom?

Good op-ed in LA Times...How China unfairly bests the U.S.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-navarro-trade-china-20110621,0,2096048.story
What the article doesn't discuss is US Corporate complicity in this arrangement.

I didn't say government should get out of the way, in some cases it should, in some it shouldn't

The issue was, how will those poor people that are left behind finally get ahead. I discussed how unlikely it seemed twenty years ago that South Africa would be a country bringing millions into the "middle class".

The government getting out of the way comment was about the government of Zimbabwe.

And how a student here at Yale and an employee of ours said essentially that because the corruption of the government, progress is halted.

We were talking about many governments. Yes, the Chinese government should get much more out of the way, same for Syria and many others.

Government, including the U.S. government is not inherently progressive.

In my lifetime I see few programs of government that actually have a progressive effect.

I did say that the structure of the U.S. government, especially our taxation, encourages consumption and not employment and not productivity and not investment.

We tax work through income and social security taxes and investment through capital gains and interest taxes.

We don't tax (and should) consumption and wealth.

The result is our economy is 70% consumption based and all but a few benefit from the programs of government.

Does it make economic sense for 300 million people to consume the output of six billion. We should be providing the tools of productivity to the world, not being obsessed with plastic things OR BAMBOO flooring.

Listen to some self proclaimed progressives they want to "put money in people's pockets" to spend. And how is that good in building a sustainable economy?

The idea that we have too much is another faulty and dangerous idea, and ironically it is not the progressive view but the conservative view.

Conservatives believe, the problem of everything is: THERE IS NOT ENOUGH TO GO AROUND.

There is not a limitation on resources problem today there is an allocation problem, there is a productivity problem.

I know many of you want to believe that you and we the U.S. are at fault for the problems of others.

Work with obsolete ideas however and you will get failing results.

Do I think "our system" is the only right one. The issues in this panel for me are not about OUR system and I don't even know what our system even is.

Is freedom of speech for example good, yes everywhere, elective government yes, everywhere.

Is our system of social security good?

No it taxes work, no, it robs poor and "middle class" people and delivers huge profits to wealthy investors.

I would say the American government rewards, wealthy people, large corporations in the guise of helping others.

It's time for some of you to move away from the obsolete thinking of the right and the left.

Look at what actually occurs, not which team you think would support an idea.

Start over.

@Mitchell Young: I do think government should get out of the way and the people should be able and willing to create successful communities without coercion from a hierarchy of buearucrats (which is what government is). But, at the same time I believe that the middle class is not something anyone should aspire to join. The middle class is the cushion that protects the wealthy from the poor, it provides a stable class of citizens lulled into a superficial comfort so that those in power can remain in power. If we as a race (human race) are to progress at all we must begin to move away from the socio-economic class system that continue to enslave millions.
The U.S. does exploit people of other nations (and people in our nation), it has for some time, but capitalism can only survive through such exploitation. It is not an evil exclusive to the U.S. Conservatives, liberals and progressive all are wrong in thinking that capitalism and democracy can co-exist equally, they cannot. I agree, we need to stop thinking in terms of right and left, we need to start thinking radically, but more importantly we need to start acting radically. Neo-liberalism and globalism have failed the people of the world, it is time to focus on smaller trade regions and maybe even economic isolationism. Small, but strong, regional economies are much better for labour and for citizens. Labour cooperatives, collective farming and trade guilds should be the backbone of any equitable and fair economic system as well as a more authentic democratic organization of society.
The growth of the global middle-class is a problem because it also means a growth in the systems that are in power, systems which feed off of exploitation, coercion and war.

Although facebook offers great connectivity, it is no more than an escape to most from the day-to-day grind. It is a "social network," a powerful one, but nothing more and nothing less. It is loaded with truths, lies, fantasy, and everything in between--many cannot tell one from the other. To read into facebook more than what it is only detracts from trying to get people back to dealing with people--in civilized, and moral fashion; as opposed to, the current violent, self-serving/ centered, don't go out of your way for others society we have been changing into. The only freedom that will be enjoyed on facebook, is an escape from real life for a limited time. Maybe these intelligent people should have spent their time building houses for injured soldiers, donated time to youth on communication, or something more productive than this.
It would be great if we could shut down the www for a week, and force people back to noticing what is really around them.

Re: Facebook

While I don't use Facebook much myself, (I don't like combining business and family) it has done something tangible in my family and that is how the point was raised.

It has provided a great tool of family communication, to a family separated by physical distance.

In our case family members learn about the rest of the family and that involves them. This cannot and should not be diminished


We see pictures of the "kids" when, someone wins an award or graduates, or has a recital, aunts and uncles, grand parents, and everyone gets involved.

It has had a profound effect.

All this connecting via Facebook has encouraged more physical connecting, visiting etc.

It is even encouraging some family members to move closer - to reconnect physically.

I did this panel to help me explore some ideas, to help others look at things differently, to not have "knee jerk responses".

One thing I see however, is how quickly views are regurgitated - so I will suggest again.

Start Over.

One last thing:

I have to admit I don't do much commenting or reviewing comments either, but this comment seems like what we once called rude.

"Maybe these intelligent people should have spent their time building houses for injured soldiers, donated time to youth on communication, or something more productive than this."

Mitchell Young,
Excellent Post.

I'd like to see our tax system overhauled and replaced with a land value tax that encourages the highest use of property and does not penalize improvements, additions and renovations made to buildings, which is penalized with higher taxes under the current property tax system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
I'd also like to massive trading reform that no longer allows the means of production to be exported, only goods. We could essentially get rid of welfare, food stamps, unemployment insurance, rent vouchers (public housing), and MedicAid if we put that money towards government contracts for low-skill workers to produce things like solar panels, trains, and consumer products. In the long term, to sustain these wages in the private market, we could pass legislation outlawing the exporting of the means of production to places like India, China and Mexico and essentially force American Companies to hire Americans to produce the goods that these companies want to sell to the American middle class.
US manufactured goods would cost more than their Chinese counterparts, but we could ensure fair wages, safe working environments and quality production in ways that we currently can't in foreign factories. Additionally, a return of US manufacturing would virtually eliminate unemployment (and the expensive effects of unemployed like crime, mass incarceration, low education, etc.) by employing people with high-educations to design machines and factories, people with high-skills to build machines and construct the buildings, and people with low-skills to assemble products.
The amount that people shell out for goods at stores would increase, but taxes would decrease tremendously, as would the cost of health care insurance. Without large scale unemployment, there's little need for such an enormous social safety net (more like subsistence tit). Of course we need to provide public services for children, the elderly and people with mental and physical disabilities, but we really need to end the multi-generational public housing, welfare, MedicAid, and food stamps dependence for people who are fully capable of working but just can't find easily accessible employment for their skill level in their neighborhood, which is the majority of people on public assistance.

In addition to the global trade fiasco, we also need to address the industrial scale production of food and meat. Starting with farm subsidies from the New Deal, farming has become increasingly consolidated in the midwestern United States (and increasingly in 3rd world countries) on industrial scale farms that are dependent on petroleum based herbicides and pesticides, oil-dependent internal combustion engine machinery, and genetically modified crops. Similarly, the manufacturing of meat really needs to stop. It is unhealthy, it relies on exploitative labor, and it has destroyed farms throughout the country like the dairy farms in New England and New York. We need to return farming to local and regional levels that still allow for the transportation of specialty goods (exotic fruits, vegetables, etc.) across country, but do not eliminate the demand for localized farms. We also need to relearn how to raise livestock rather than produce meat; that important distinction is paramount.

A point I'd like to add from the Monitor series that I thought important is regarding whether or not the rising middle class's acquisition of cconsumer goods,such as cars,will pose a threat in the way of pollution or depletion of resources. The Monitor article stated that products, cars a major example, are being designed specifically for developing country cconsumers-more green and eco-friendly, and less expensive. And they're finding a market back in the originating Western country in return. These products will not be as destructive to the environment, one hopes.

@M.Y. - "We don't tax (and should) consumption and wealth."

-inheritance/estate tax - when a wealthy person dies and passes their wealth to the next generation, that is taxed. presumably, the wealthy person that died already paid taxes (income/cap gains) on that wealth they accumulated. Each subsequent generation is taxed on the same money as it is passed down through wealthy families.
-sales tax - taxes consumption
-gas/cigarette taxes
-property taxes - if you buy a fancy car you pay sales tax and property tax every year on it. The more expensive house/car you buy the more you pay in tax.

• income tax - the higher income bracket you are in the higher percentage tax you pay
  
  Just a few examples.. I'm not saying these taxes are bad, or good, but they are taxes on wealth/consumption, no?

@MY
Yes, inheritance taxes are one wealth tax. the other taxes cited however are basically state taxes.

States can play a part in directing some investment and savings, the flow of people and companies limits what can happen. Also state taxes are deductible and those have a reduction to many federal taxes.

The overall issue is what direction does the government point the economy.

Taxes create the overall direction, our structure of taxing income, through income taxes and Social Security tax ( 14% of income for most citizens). Is a tax work.

It is not well understood but the Social Security tax, which is presented as a retirement benefit is not really that.

Social Secutiry is a very heavy and, very regressive tax.

If you die before 65 you lose everything you put in. If you live the return you get on your 14% "investment" of income is well below what other retirement benefits offer,for government employees and the private sector.

This confiscation model makes it a tax and not a retirement benefit.

14% and then for many other people 20-25% that's 39%, plus state taxes.

Should they have some savings and invest it on their own they will pay income taxes on the interest or will pay capital taxes.

We need more investment and we need to lower the costs of employment.

We need to reduce our purchases of energy and goods, between the two we have a trade deficit approach 1 trillion dollars per year.

Don't tax employment, don't tax investment, we need more of each.

Tax consumption - we need less. Address progressivity by wealth taxes.

We can't do it all at once - it would upset to much of the economy.

HERE IS A GREEN IDEA, to motivate liberals to rethink the confiscation of social security taxes

Tax energy and DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR reduce social security taxes for a start. You might find the Tea Party on your side.

Eliminate interest taxes and capital gains and start a national sales tax. DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR - no new revenue.