“You Don’t Take Pictures Of Us”

Be careful, a few months ago a man had his home raided and computers and cameras confiscated for video taping a police officer. Police state, anyone?

I have no problem with the police stepping up enforcement of the law in the bar district downtown, but they MUST recognize citizens rights.

grey shirts?? thats not new haven po-po

I'm glad the Mayor and the Chief stated that citizens have the right to photograph or video the police.

Given that the police clearly were unconcerned with the law, do we also need to remind them of our other basic rights? With how much we pay them they should all practically have law degrees.

I hope they verify, without question, that those are New Haven cops before another knee-jerk investigation is opened. I really can't see confirming that from the video alone.

[Editor's note: You can compare a recent photo of Crown Street with a still from the video: <a href="http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/upload/2010/10/crownstlot.jpg&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and <a href="http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/upload/2010/10/videostill.jpg&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]

<i>The public has a right to videotape an officer's conduct in public and may do so without interfering with an arrest, scene investigation or causing a safety issue for the officers on scene.</i>

That's why citizens with cameras getting too close to the action is bad for everyone involved - it creates additional potential hazards that the police officers must evaluate in a chaotic situation. Done safely (for all), it has been valuable to have video of these events captured and it's been an important tool to refute the claims of some overly zealous law enforcement personnel as well as false claims made by those arrested.

In the video shown, it appears the person on the ground is creating a potential danger for the police officers and bystanders by refusing to show his hands and allow them to be secured. There have been times when such hidden hands were holding a weapon and people were hurt or worse. The police must use some form of force it that situation to get compliance, even if it "looks bad". Would you rather they used a tazer or a baton? Talking nicely is not an option in such a situation.

They even beat News staff photographers. And they have press passes.

Cops Stop Photo Ops
Photogs Allege Police Aggression at Rally
By Cynthia Cotts

http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-02-25/news/cops-stop-photo-ops/1/

Did I miss something?

What did the police do wrong?

The guy on the ground is fighting the polcie not giving them his hands, you can see it and the cop is yelling give me your hands.

Stop monday-morning quarterbacking our police when these drunks act like fools.

Who wants some idiot standing nearby videotaping you while your in a struggle. Its not a game or a joke. Police wrok is dangerous, as seen two weeks ago when NHPD cops got shot at by a guy with a gun in that same area at the same time of night.

These drunk kids think everything is a joke and have no respect.

posted by: KAMB on October 8, 2010 5:40pm
Did I miss something?

What did the police do wrong?



You're welcome to join him," a cop tells the cameraman at the start of the clip, referring to the person being detained.

Thirty seconds later, a cop approaches the videographer and grabs the camera.

"I was taking a picture!" the cameraman protests.

"You don't take pictures of us," the cop replies. "How do you shut this off?"

"You press the top button. Right there."

The clip ends.

The police officer was wrong in trying to stop the person from filming

Remember this.Seems like the same thing.eat some popcorn and enjoy.

Connecticut priest arrested for filming cops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySYxlp9fa_k&amp;feature=player_embedded

who cares about this? it looks like the cops were showing restraint with another clueless drunk. who was videotaping that?

Some New Haven cops are particularly belligerent bullies--they make the rest of the police (who are doing good work) look bad.
...
If De Stefano were a serious mayor concerned about New Haven, he'd stop this rogue police officer and others like him. The New Haven Police ought to be stopping crimes, rather than getting its jollies off at the expense of Yalies.

i feel bad for this kid kelly. He feels "enraged" by this non incident? this can't be a real quote by a 22 year old male right?

It looks to me not like brutality but the cops trying to subdue a suspect.

However, police are public employees doing their job in public so it stands to reason that anyone can record them doing their job.

Thank you to the Mayor and Chief for reminding the cops and US of our rights, because many people are too afraid to stand up for themselves and to record bad behavior when they see it. I think that an army of citizen journalists is the BEST thing the PD and local gov't can have to keep our public servants in line. I want GOOD cops patrolling my city, keeping me safe, not bad, angry ones, drunk on power.

This continues to mystify me. Police officers openly and aggressively violating the civil rights of the public. The cops are clearly in the wrong and deserve punishment and discipline.

What is more disturbing to me is that command, the Chief and the rest of Limon's staff, failed to prevent putting their officers in this position.

Poor training, poor supervision, and poor discipline only produces bad fruit, much like we see on the videos captured by the college students.

Several commenters think this article is about the person getting arrested in the video. Apparently they missed the point of the article.

This is about the police restricting the rights of the person with the video camera. The person on the ground is not the issue. Its the person with the camera that is the issue.

To ThreeFifths,
...

You obviously missed the point. Anyone can film anything, but not at close range in the dark of night when cops are subduing someone. A reasonable person would let the cops do their job and not prod them into a confrontation like this kid obviously did. Cops are humans too.

When our forefathers hammered out the Constitution many mons ago, they certainly did;nt factor in cell phones with cameras, and drunk idiots filming and posting on YouTube public servants trying to do their job. These cops have a tough job. They dont need people in their face filming them while they try to curtail people behaving at their worst.

These people film the cops, hoping they get their 15 minutes of fame when they Cop finally blows his lid and cant take it anymore and BINGO they get their video posted on the news and then these drunk idots are heros and victims.

Our society is twisted. Again, ask yourself who would bother filming officers while they struggle to do their job, controlling hundreds of intoxicated people. I'll tell you who, people who want attention, negative attention.

I wish the cops would boycott working the bars. It would be chaos because people cant police themselves.

And again, please someone from of the local news stations, go downtown, film the bar closings and you'll see violent drunks, and horrifying behavior from people. The cops are saints dealing with this day in and day out.

Did any of you watch this video? The complaint against the action of the cops have nothing to do with the arrest. They have to do with the cop ordering the cameraman to stop filming.

i grew up in new haven
but lived in the pacific northwest a few years
its kinda strange
but all these complaints?
i pay decent property taxes
i doubt id get a pass from nhpd
and i help pat their wages
not for nothing but i suggest moving
let the have this once majestic town
oh and new haven public works
thanks for cutting down the tree in the yard i used to climb

I'm a photographer, and I would be furious if someone grabbed my camera away like that. In public, it is every citizen's right to look at people or to take a picture or to shoot a video.

I can't think of any circumstance where it would be inappropriate to film an officer performing official duties, so long as the photographer does not physically interfere. Transparency is the antithesis of petty abuses of power.

@KAMB

You argue that the police acted legitimately.

If the police acted legitimately, why deprive themselves of video that could be used in their own defense?

You argue that police have some sort of interest in not being video recorded. I understand that people feel less comfortable while being recorded. But how is video recording a public incident different from having many many people watching--which is already legal? I suppose it's different because video has more legitimacy than just the sworn statements of a student against the sworn statement of a cop. If the police acted legitimately, the video would actually protect them from frivolous lawsuits.

I have the deepest respect for those who serve and protect. Police work is dangerous. There are certainly situations where disallowing video would be important for safety. This situation does not seem to be a time where it would be important for safety to prohibit video. Quite the opposite.

People, if you call that 'brutality' try again. Who knows what the guy was doing, but they obviously needed 4 or 5 cops to subdue him. The cop that turned off the video camera and said 'you don't take pictures of us' is probably sick of all this cop-hating talk. Next time stand far enough away where they don't see you.

If only to protect the police from their own worst instincts they should be taped during any arrest when force is involved. I like the helmet cams, but the public must also have access to the tapes.

posted by: KAMB on October 8, 2010 11:15pm
To ThreeFifths,
...

You obviously missed the point. Anyone can film anything, but not at close range in the dark of night when cops are subduing someone. A reasonable person would let the cops do their job and not prod them into a confrontation like this kid obviously did. Cops are humans too.

No it is you who are missing the point and that is do we have the right to film or take pictures of the poilce or even fire fighters doing there job and the answer is yes.

When our forefathers hammered out the Constitution many mons ago, they certainly did;nt factor in cell phones with cameras, and drunk idiots filming and posting on YouTube public servants trying to do their job. These cops have a tough job. They dont need people in their face filming them while they try to curtail people behaving at their worst.

So if this is the case why did the mayor and police chief say it was ok.Also what if it wase a news reporter
and camera crew doing the film.Would they be wroug?


These people film the cops, hoping they get their 15 minutes of fame when they Cop finally blows his lid and cant take it anymore and BINGO they get their video posted on the news and then these drunk idots are heros and victims.

So why didn't the police officer arrest the man for filming him.


Our society is twisted. Again, ask yourself who would bother filming officers while they struggle to do their job, controlling hundreds of intoxicated people. I'll tell you who, people who want attention, negative attention

So thing like this don't happen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gw8aOkS8dc


posted by: KAMB on October 8, 2010 11:18pm
And again, please someone from of the local news stations, go downtown, film the bar closings and you'll see violent drunks, and horrifying behavior from people. The cops are saints dealing with this day in and day out.

And this may happen to them.Remember they beat News Reporters and there
Crews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDw1Za8F-I

to KAMB:

great post. right on the money with your comments. what is the purpose of videotaping anything at 1 am at bar closing time with thousands of drunk college kids bumping into each other in the middle of Crown st.

ok we all know its not illegal but there's common sense rules to follow if your dumb/ bored enough to film police in public.

No one hs mentioned that there were underage drinkers in the club at the "private party". Go Yale!!!!

posted by: Advice on October 10, 2010 1:43am
ok we all know its not illegal but there's common sense rules to follow if your dumb/ bored enough to film police in public.

Re Advice: On the money. ... Kam, yes some chose to ignore the true gist of the article - including me - because I'm not particularly concerned with the 'rights' of the cameraman here (or the guy getting arrested frankly). In MY opinion, kid with the camera was just instigating, the guy getting arrested HAD to have done something, and NHI is clearly fanning the flames.

For all you wanna-be videographers, trolls and reporters-here's some wearable cameras so you can record what's going on around you and remain undetected.
http://www.spygearco.com/wearable-spy-cameras.htm

How would you feel if someone started video taping you at work? Officers have rights too and clearly this officer felt violated. All he did was take the phone and tell him to stop taping. It's not like they threw him on the floor because he was taping them. Get over it people.

Why are people talking about the guy on the ground?

I'm sorry, but the cop who says, "You don't take pictures of us" and "You want to join him?" ... WTF is that, "You don't take pictures of us"? Why on earth does that cop think he has a privilege the rest of us do not enjoy?

I have no problem in the way the cops are doing the arrest. The man is violent and they have to do what they have to do to cuff him. My problem is the intimidation of the cameraman. This is a civil rights issue and the FBI should be investigating NHPD.

Arrrrgh!

I guess poking fun at the slack jawed yokels on the East Haven PD for the infamous Rev-Manship-Video incident just couldn't last forever.

Now we've got our very own personal 1st Amendment rumpus in New Haven.

It's about the camera man(rights issue, even though the guy on the ground needed about 6 cops to subdue him even though he was on the ground you still had a cop step on his ankle intentionally in the video during, resulting in the guy screaming, the funny thing is that unless you have had six knees in your back and your face being rubbed against the ground while being stepped on you might think that's the way of subduing someone who obviously wasn't even standing or in a position to be combative is resisting arrest simply about being on the ground saying ow, and your hurting me? some of you people are nothing more than lemmings just going along what will keep you in your little boxes.

I wouldn't stand behind a policeman arresting someone without a camera, never mind with one. I'm impressed by the patience of the police officers.

Who said the FBI should be investigating the NHPD? FBI just deliberately let a case roll past the statute of limitations. FBI goes out of its way not to hold cops accountable.

It investigates when it has to and only when it has to. It prosecutes a tiny, minuscule, percentage of crimes and misconduct committed by police.

If it investigates this, it is because it has to, however it perceives "has to." It could be media coverage (you can thank local newspapers for failing to cover or even understand the case that just rolled past the deadline), organized groups filing group complaints, misconduct that happens to conform to some internal priority protocol set locally or by the AG/President or crimes that are just impossible to ignore because they are just so blatant or egregious and involve money, especially money, such as Billy white's case.

People at the FBI and the US Attorneys office are people who have had to compromise and look the other way numerous times in their careers. They don't exactly feel a lot of affection for people who can't stomach that sort of thing, who have lived their lives with the luxury of or determination to stand their ground and refuse to compromise on principles.

They have a kind of fake integrity, where each bit of authenticity they sacrifice is subsidized with a bit of power and prestige to replace it, and of course, stand in for it. Thus, fake.

Police engage in wholesale spoliation of evidence and are never prosecuted for it.

In civil and criminal cases they are sometimes caught beyond all doubt faking probable cause reports and testifying falsely under oath, sometimes even admitting it on the stand, and they are never prosecuted for it, even with proof on videotape. They are rarely even disciplined for it under IA.

Those who work in the law, courts and cop shops all know it, all of them. It is standard operating procedure. It is the biggest open secret in America, in Connecticut and in New Haven.

If every New Havener stopped watching TV and just sat in court for a year watching, at state and federal level, it would start to sink in and it would also start to sink in that the press can't do it for you. they are strapped and none of the outlets, NHI included, has anyone who has done a comprehensive job of it.

Heck the acting US Attorney here until the new recent US Att was appointed, along with one of the star career supervisory prosecutors in the office caused guilty verdicts to be overturned in 2008 when a higher court found that they had withheld exculpatory evidence.

We have this situation in New Haven on the street not because the state and federal authorities don't know about it, but because together, they have been doing it. What you are seeing on the street is just that part of it. Again,it has long been acknowledged that color of law crimes are prosecuted generally only when they 'have to'

Anyone who thinks you can trust government to run itself while they watch TV, or work their two and three jobs, is just plain wrong.

Hey KAMB: This line--"Again, ask yourself who would bother filming officers while they struggle to do their job, controlling hundreds of intoxicated people. I'll tell you who, people who want attention, negative attention"--makes me hope you don't wield executive power (although you might very well be a cop). People "bother" to film police because of the thousands of cases of unnecessary force that go down each year. And guess what? The cops lie to protect one another it's only--ONLY--in incidents in which there's a tape that anything (however minor) happens. A policeman charges into a line of bikers, knocks one to the ground, stomps on him and arrests him: "He drove into people and then resisted arrest," said the cop. Hey, KAMB: See the tape? My advice is: Tape everything the police do while making an arrest. Discreetly and Respectfully. If they threaten you, they're violating your constitutional rights. And Officer KAMB: If someone points a camera at you while you're making an arrest, how does that interfere with your ability to do your job? By making you think twice about delivering that one gratuitous kick? Other than that, I don't see how it could interfere. It's for YOUR protection, too. You could be hit with an unjustified charge of brutality. And hey--you could be getting arrested yourself someday.

... KAMB reflects my thoughts too, and trust me I'm no cop. In fact, I've been arrested and tossed in jail quite a few times. Thankfully, after a long stretch of 'misdeeds', I finally learned. The honest truth is I've NEVER been mistreated by the police. I was always smart (and polite) enough to know when to shut my mouth. A little common sense goes a long way.

Gentryfime:
Did it ever occur to you that it is a little different when you actually committed a crime? Ever think of that? A lot different? Do you comprehend that?

...What I'm saying is, it seems like everybody involved in this story was pretty much asking for what they got from the cops. Do you understand?